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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (90628)	12/14/2004 3:11:24 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793718

I have argued here in the last couple of days that insisting on messages of "Merry Christmas" rather than "Happy Holidays" to people not known to celebrate Christmas is an assertion of dominance meant, directly or indirectly, to put the "other" in its place. I disagree rather strongly with that. I don't even think that most expressions of "Merry Christmas" to someone known to be offended by the phrase would be bullying or "assertions of dominance". It would be rude, but not bullying. And I have also argued that insisting that the entire month of December is the Christmas season so no strictly secular event can can occur during that month is also an assertion of dominance meant to put the "other" in their place. I'm not sure I would call the mere assertion of the idea bullying but I can understand why it could be seen that way. Any attempt to actually enforce the idea (even if it is a peaceful attempt) might reasonably be considered bullying. Forceful attempts (including the force of law, or threats, even ones that are never actually carried out and even threats of non-violent action) would be bullying. Tim

To: Lane3 who wrote (90628)	12/14/2004 4:54:14 PM
From: haqihana	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793718

kholt, If you are so easily intimidated, you have a lot more problems than someone wishing you a merry Christmas. Wishing someone a merry Christmas, is not now, nor ever has been, intended by anyone to intimidate. If you feel that it has been done to you, you are reading something into a peaceful statement that just is not there. If someone was holding a baseball bat over your head, and insisting that you repeat the "merry Christmas", then you may have something to complain about. Has anyone ever put their face close to yours, and growled merry Christmas? I seriously doubt that they have. All one has to do, is politely say that they do not celebrate Christmas, and 99% of the time, the wishers will leave them alone. The entire month of December, has always been considered a holiday season, beginning with Thanksgiving, and ending with the new year celebrations. If you think otherwise, your are reading something into the season that is not there. Only December 25, is revered by Christians, in the month of December, with celebrations being held in churches on other days to accommodate all of the Christians with a chance to join in a celebration. I have never heard a true Christian complain about Hannakuh, or Kwanza, or any other celebration being commemorated in December. As far as total atheists are concerned, I just treat them as being off on some tangent. We all, or should, know that Jesus was not born on December 25. It has been clearly stated that the Roman occupation army was collecting taxes when he was born, and records kept by that army, which were demanded by Rome, indicate that no taxes were being collected in December. Most also know, that the early Roman church hooked Christmas up with Saturnalia, because of the crowds that would be present in Rome during that celebration, but the birth of Jesus is significant enough to be celebrated by those who believe in him, regardless of when it happened. Even if they don't believe he is the son of God, they must admit that his life has had a tremendous effect on the world. So, it has been celebrated on 12/25. Personally, one believing in Jesus as the Christ, should celebrate his birth on every day of the year, but so many seem to forget that. It seems that, the only way you are going to be able to avoid a custom of a couple of thousand years, is to either hole up until it's over, or find the strength to brush such minor inconveniences off as a nuisance to you, because merry Christmas is going to be said during this season for thousands of years to come, as long as there is a Christian left alive on earth. Get used to it. It ain't going away.

To: Lane3 who wrote (90628)	12/15/2004 3:32:23 AM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793718

WOW! It never ceases what I learn online anymore. I'll make sure to tell my blue haired, 73 year old mother to quit bullying so many people this time of the year. She has been so sneaky about it too. She actually has the gall to smile when she tells folks Merry Christmas too. The nerve that old bitty has! And I'm shocked to learn she's part of a vast conspiracy with other christians to abuse the Constitution & their majority status & say "Merry Christmas" to show dominance & bully all the heathens in their midst. All these years I thought she was just practicing her christian beliefs & celebrating the birth of Christ. Thanks for setting me straight Karen! I never would have guessed my mother & all her other blue haired friends were a rotten bunch of jerks who looked down their noses at everyone who didn't think like they do. I'm gonna lay into that old bird big time. I think I'll put the fear of God into her. I may even force her to read your screeds on the subject. That'll set her straight! :-o