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Technology Stocks : The *NEW* Frank Coluccio Technology Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Raymond Duray who wrote (8400)12/15/2004 7:07:45 PM
From: ftth  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 46821
 
Hi Ray, re: An entirely new multi-billion dollar infrastructure will need to be created...

and a multi-trillion dollar existing legacy fossil-fuel industry will need to roll over. I tend to agree/believe that probably doesn't happen in the 2030 timeframe. Too many billionaire defenders of the old regime.

On a related note, I came across this link from BMW on their hydrogen fuel cell car (sept 2004):
germancarfans.com

Impressive performance. Unfortunately it sounds like a "money was no object" project. But I suppose the price doesn't matter much without the infrastructue. The car could be cheaper than a junk-yard 1975 Ford Pinto and it still wouldn't have an easy path to mass market.



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (8400)12/16/2004 3:06:20 PM
From: Frank A. Coluccio  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 46821
 
Turkey Droppings Fuel Power Plant

[ Ray, what were you saying about liquid hydrogen? And when I think of all of those once sprawling duck farms out on Long Island that the EPA ... ]

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Turkey leftovers will take on a whole new use after a Minnesota company finishes construction of a power plant fired by the birds' droppings.

cnn.com

It may not be the total answer to relieving the United States' addiction to foreign oil, but the plant will burn 90 percent turkey dung and create clean power for 55,000 homes.

Three poultry litter plants have already been built in England, but the Benson, Minnesota-based facility will be the first large-scale plant of its type in the U.S. and the largest in the world, according to operator Fibrominn, a subsidiary of power plant builder Homeland Renewable Energy, LLC of Boston.

Turkey dung is prized over pig excrement and cow chips.

"Poultry litter is drier material, so it burns better, and there's a lot of it," said Charles Grecco, of HH Media, LLC, an investment bank that helped arrange $202 million in financing for the plant.

The 55-megawatt plant will burn 700,000 tons of dung a year and produce fertilizer as a by-product, a process that will keep phosphorus and nitrates found in the raw litter from seeping into water supplies, said Grecco.

No extra amounts of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide would be emitted than would be naturally emitted as the dung decomposes, said Grecco.

Utility Xcel has agreed to purchase the turkey power, said company spokesman Ed Legge. Under 1994 Minnesota state legislation, Xcel is required to buy a small amount of power made from biomass in exchange for clearance to store spent nuclear fuel outside its Red Wing nuclear plant in Minnesota.

Fibrowatt, LLC, a Philadelphia-based developer, which is mostly owned by Homeland Renewable Energy, is pursing other plants in poultry-growing U.S. states.

------

FAC
frank@fttx.org



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (8400)12/24/2004 6:54:42 AM
From: axial  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 46821
 
Hi Ray, John, ftth, and Frank...

Future scenarios are ugly. It's a question of tradeoffs, and the beauty contest will probably be won by Miss Congeniality.

grida.no

"Finally, the WBCSD study included a possible fuel mix for the world in 2050 in which the world's power supply is doubled and emits 9 gigatons of carbon per year. In that scenario, the world will need the equivalent of 3000 1 gigawatt natural gas-fired power plants; 1000 1 gigawatt coal-fired plants; 1000 1 gigawatt coal-fired plants with carbon capture; 1.5 million 5 megawatt windmills; 2500 nuclear power stations; 2000 hydropower stations; 65 exajoules of solar power; 1 billion high fossil fueled vehicles and 1 billion biofueled vehicles; 50 exajoules of biofueled heating and cooling and 250 exajoules of fossil fueled heating and cooling. An exajoule is equivalent to approximately 23.5 million metric tons of oil.

Currently, humanity is fueled by 1000 1 gigawatt coal-fired power plants, 400 1 gigawatt oil-fired plants, 250 gas-fired plants, 350 nuclear power stations, 500 gigawatts of hydropower, 750 million fossil fueled vehicles, 130 exajoules for heating and cooling, 50 exajoules from the burning of traditional biomass.

Doing the math, in order to double the world's energy supplies over the next 50 years, the world will need to build, among other things, the equivalent of 2750 new 1 gigawatt natural gas-fired power stations, 1000 new coal-fired 1 gigawatt power plants with carbon capture, 1.5 million windmills deployed over a bit less than 300,000 square miles, 2150 new nuclear plants, 1500 new 1 gigawatt hydropower stations, not to mention new solar and biofuel technologies."


techcentralstation.com

At BC Transit, I was distantly involved with evaluation of Ballard Power's fuel-cell buses, which company was the parent of pilot project fuel-cell cars by Mercedes.

WRT to ftth's comment about the dangers of hydrogen transport, yes, it's dangerous. A few months back, a hydrogen tanker at the local Ballard plant suddenly began emitting an almost-invisible flame - fortunately, with no explosion or real damage. However, the meter blew, on neighbourhood anxiety levels...

Without going into detail, I still prefer the idea of swapping pre-filled modular "tanks" when refuelling. It appears to be the safest way. Yodelling "Fill 'er up!" to some yahoo at the local pump might be a ticket to paradise.

Hydrogen infrastructure will have to be developed, and made safe. There won't be any choice.

Many problems remain unsolved... electrified mass transit will make a return, but you'll need a long extension cord for aircraft ;)

We can all evaluate figures in the various scenarios differently, but there's only conclusion: we will experience a MASSIVE need for new power generation.

The good news is the bad news: mankind is now on the downhill side of poisoning the planet with fossil fuel, and carbon waste.

Back in November '73 in the first oil embargo, we watched the UK start rationing gas, and shutting down TV stations at 1030, to save power. In the US, Nixon rolled speed limits back to the "double nickel" and truck drivers rioted. In Germany, autobahns were deserted, and in New York, there were fistfights at gas stations with long lineups.

If we don't get a handle on power generation, we'll see people freezing to death, and starving to death - starting with the poorest.

I can't prove it, but I think nuclear power on a model like the one proposed by Farrington Daniels, together with hydrogen power is the least unattractive option.

We may make light of it, but our children will be faced with the consequences of decisions being made now. I don't eny them.

It's about time we started electing people who have the foresight and guts to act on a clear vision of the future. We used to have them once. More important, we used to vote for them.

Maybe we've just got too damned fat, too indulgent in dreamy agendas, to plan (and prepare) for what's coming.

Jim