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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: michael97123 who wrote (154428)12/20/2004 8:14:19 AM
From: michael97123  Respond to of 281500
 
More hopeful NYT on Mideast.
Israeli policy during the infitada is very important for america to learn. Israel was going to be Pariahsized for any response to the "I" so why not use necessary violence to destroy the terrorist infrastructure? If US is to stay in iraq, a way must be found to project our power on the Insurgents by any means necessary. I would love to see a helicopter shooting a missile right down zarquawis throat.

nytimes.com

A Modest Proposal: Israel Joining NATO
By STEVEN ERLANGER

Published: December 19, 2004

ERZLIYA, Israel — The death of Yasir Arafat has been like the holing of a dam on a long-blocked river, with a sudden and powerful surge of optimism and new ideas in the Middle East, even if some of them are still rather muddy.

One of the most intriguing is the suggestion that Israel, which has always seen itself as a singular David among Goliaths, should consider joining NATO.

The idea, at least, is that closer ties to NATO - and perhaps eventual membership - would embed Israel in the West and, by providing security guarantees, give it more confidence to make a comprehensive peace.

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Such logic stands in contrast with a core lesson that Israel's founding generation took from the Holocaust: in the end, the Jewish people should count only on themselves to guarantee their survival.

But Uzi Arad, a former Israeli intelligence official who heads the Institute for Policy and Strategy, says it is time for Israel to "drop its Groucho attitude" toward NATO and work "to establish a solid and comprehensive partnership with both the United States and Europe."

Mr. Arad chairs an annual conference here on security that draws senior Israeli and foreign policy makers and analysts. This year, he is urging Israel to get over its mistrust of alliances and lessen its isolation. He argues that the prospect of a nuclear Iran makes better ties with NATO more logical and urgent."The Euro-Atlantic community is Israel's natural habitat," he says.

In his efforts, he has been joined by former American and European officials who helped manage the two expansions of NATO since the Soviet collapse and draft NATO's Partnership for Peace, which has countries like Georgia and Azerbaijan prettying themselves up for possible membership.

One former American official, Ronald Asmus, who is now with the German Marshall Fund, said he has wondered why NATO, which extends through Turkey and is fighting in Afghanistan, was seeking partnership with Georgia and not Israel. "Israel is already a Western democracy that shares our values and interests in a part of the world that is becoming central to NATO," he said. "So why is Israel off limits?"

Of course, the prospect of closer ties with Israel would create debate within NATO, especially in the absence of a final Israeli-Palestinian settlement. But first Israel itself needs to talk through the military and political pros and cons, and decide if the organization is a club it wants to associate with.

While the idea of Israeli membership may seem a stretch, it could only be raised because NATO is reinventing itself. Originally a military alliance designed to deter or fight the Soviet Union in Europe, NATO has become a broader and more political association of democracies with a partnership role for former enemies, including Russia.

Especially after the Sept. 11 attacks, NATO is concerned much more with terrorism than with tanks, and is developing a Middle Eastern avocation, since that is where most of today's threats to its members lie. From Islamic radicalism to potential Iranian nuclear missiles, the threats are much the same as Israel faces, and Israeli intelligence knows a great deal about them.

As for Israel, the collapse of the Oslo accords and the last four years of warfare with the Palestinians have badly undermined the dream, which began with Zionism, of a Jewish state taking its proud place as an integral part of the Middle East, accepted by its neighbors. Like Oslo, it was a lovely vision, but it is in tatters.

In economic, trade and technology terms, too, Israel's connections to Europe dwarf any it has with its own region. Half of Israel's imports come from the European Union, which absorbs a third of Israel's exports. And Israel already has a very close relationship with the union and its institutions. Still, Israelis worry that the occupation of Palestinian territory, Israeli settlement policies and the last four years of fighting have badly hurt their reputation in Europe, and even in the United States.

The Israeli military is skeptical about closer NATO ties, Israeli officials say, because it fears losing any freedom of action. Israel retains a fierce commitment to doing whatever may be necessary to preserve its existence and security, however distasteful such actions may be to others - whether assassinating Hamas leaders, detaining suspects without trial or destroying the homes of suicide bombers and militants.

There is also the question of Israel's privately acknowledged nuclear capacity. And Europeans express some anxiety about how Arab nations might react.

The benefits for Israel would be significant, said an ambassador here from a European NATO country. Threats and risks the Middle East may present, he said, include not only a nuclear Iran but also "an Islamicized Saudi Arabia or a collapsing Egypt."

For Europeans, too, he said, there is a potential benefit beyond Israel's military and intelligence assets. "We mustn't let Israel divide Europe from the United States," he said. "NATO can help the Israelis extricate themselves from this mess of occupation."

Before anything can happen, though, the Israelis will have to think through their future interests, NATO officials say.

"The initiative will have to come from the Israeli side," said Sir Peter Ricketts, the British ambassador to NATO. "But if so, there will be a strong echo back."

NATO, at its summit meeting in Istanbul in June, opened the possibility of relationships with each Middle Eastern country. Mr. Arad would like Israel to seize the chance, and start with an arrangement like Sweden's - no full membership, but compatibility of forces and consultation. Membership could come later, if at all.

NATO's secretary general, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, is coming to Israel next spring to press the case. He has promised to work for closer ties if Israel wants them. By the time he visits, Israeli officials say, they are likely to have the beginnings of an answer.



To: michael97123 who wrote (154428)12/20/2004 8:22:45 AM
From: Ish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
I got a Christmas card from President and Mrs. Bush and I'm sure it's auto signed but I'm not going to toss it out.



To: michael97123 who wrote (154428)12/20/2004 12:48:17 PM
From: cnyndwllr  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
Mike, why are you perpetually surprised when Bush continues to support Rumsfeld and seems less than upset when Rumsfeld seems to view the troops as expendable? What has Bush ever done that would lead you to believe that he sees things differently or views the troops differently than Rumsfeld? Was it when he said, "Bring em on," referring to the attackers in Iraq who were killing our soldiers? Is it when he consistently tells us that the costs will be high to "free" the Iraqis? Is it when he tells us that the American people should be prepared to do whatever it takes to "win" the "peace" in Iraq?

I don't think there's a drop of difference between Bush and Rumsfeld when it comes to willingness to sacrifice American troops in a "war" which they have poorly assessed and drastically misjudged. I don't think Bush is even as thoughtful as Rumsfeld when it comes to making absolutely sure that our soldiers have every piece of equipment that they need to do their job safely. I think they are both bean counting in order to try to keep the costs down so they can maintain the political support they need and I think they both knew that the billions in new armor were not being pushed hard enough. It's war "on the cheap" but then Rumsfeld and Bush aren't getting killed and, after all, the soldiers "volunteered."

If you look at the reactions of those who have gone to war, they were repulsed by the words and reactions of Rumsfeld, and dismayed by its implications. It's clear that the armor was not being prioritized and that soldiers were dying, and will die, because of that but Bush says Rumsfeld's doing a fantastic job. What a piece of shit. Ed



To: michael97123 who wrote (154428)12/20/2004 1:42:16 PM
From: GST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<Schwartzkopf> Schwartzkopf was one of the more eloquent opponents of the war early on -- he was the leader who stepped up to the plate and said don't make the same mistake we made in Vietnam happen again in Iraq -- don't send our military into battle with a cloud over the mission. Unfortunately, that is precisely what we did.