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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: geode00 who wrote (6466)	12/22/2004 3:45:53 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

Re: I wonder if anyone in the admin has any idea what the end game is here. I guess it's crystal-clear: the endgame for your Judeofascist freaks in Washington and Tel-Aviv is to compel Islam, the whole of Islam --that is, both Sunni and Shia Islam-- to give up on Jerusalem. The Arabs can rule over Gaza, over some patches in the West Bank, they can even get some token sovereignty over their al-aqsa mosque but that's all! Jerusalem, the city proper, both east and west, shall forever remain Jewish property. That's the Judeo-Protestant endgame --by the way, that was also the Crusaders' endgame six hundred years ago... For about 190 years, Jerusalem was ruled by Christian --Catholic, to be precise-- dukes, barons and lords: Baldwin, Montferrat, etc...() Israel is merely the Zionist, Judeo-Protestant sequel to the ill-fated crusades of yore.... Gus () Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem (1099-1291) The Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem was founded as a result of the First Crusade, in 1099. Destroyed a first time by Saladin in 1187, it was re-established around Saint-Jean d'Acre and maintained until the capture of that city in 1291. During these two centuries it was for Western Europe a genuine centre of colonization. As the common property of Christendom it retained its international character to the end, although the French element predominated among the feudal lords and the government officials, and the Italians acquired the economic preponderance in the cities. [...] newadvent.org

To: geode00 who wrote (6466)	12/22/2004 4:10:30 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

OOoops! Correction: sounds like even a token Arab sovereignty over the Temple Mount is too much for the most rabid Judeofascists --clue: Tue., December 21, 2004 Tevet 9, 5765 Target: The Temple Mount By Nadav Shragai Former chief Sephardi Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu wrote a few days ago in the journal Mayanei Hayeshua that the foundation stone of the Temple Mount gives strength and ability to whoever possesses it. He offered no elaboration of this remark. But among the Temple Mount movements, a similar understanding has taken hold. For years, many members of these movements have believed that Israel's enemies draw their strength and their ability to threaten and hurt the Jewish people directly from their control over Judaism's holiest site - from their hold on the Temple Mount. According to this theory, the very existence of mosques on the ruins of the Temple and the fact that the Temple Mount has been controlled for decades by Muslim religious authorities permanently weakens Israel's ability to cope with threats and pressure, whether domestic or foreign, and at the same time, gives strength to the enemy. Even Uri Elitzur, the editor of Nekuda, who is not associated with any of the Temple Mount movements, once commented in this vein that religious feeling is a powerful political force, both for Jews and for Muslims, and anyone who ignores it demonstrates not that he does not understand religion, but that he does not understand politics. "To hold the Land of Israel without ownership of the Temple Mount is rather like platonic love," he said. But despite Muslim control over the mount, which was allowed by Moshe Dayan in 1967, both Elitzur and Rabbi Eliyahu are far from thinking of blowing up the mosques. Even Rabbi Shlomo Goren, who died about 10 years ago, rejected this idea, although in June 1967 he proposed it to GOC Central Command Uzi Narkiss and Air Force Commander Moti Hod. Rabbi Goren eventually concluded that if the mosques were blown up, the Israeli government would just have to solicit donations from world Jewry to rebuild them, and there could be no greater desecration of God's name than this. But among the extremists in the Temple Mount movements, a different wind is blowing these days. As the evacuation of the Gush Katif settlements draws near, a return to the old beliefs - the ones that Rabbi Yeshua Ben Shushan tried to put into practice 25 years ago, in the framework of the Jewish underground - has become evident. On the eve of the evacuation of the Yamit settlement in Sinai, Ben Shushan, basing himself on kabbalistic sources, concluded that "Muslim control of the Temple Mount is the root of the corruption of the Jewish nation, and this control gives Islam a spiritual wellspring from which its believers draw the strength of their presence in Israel." Ben Shushan and some of his comrades therefore reasoned that removing this "abomination" from the mount by blowing up the mosques would halt the withdrawal from Sinai. In recent years, this simplistic outlook has penetrated the extreme margins of religious society, particularly the group known as the "Hilltop Youth" and small groups of the newly religious. The worldview of some of these groups is characterized by uncompromising messianism, alongside an anachronism that almost blatanly disconnects them from Israeli society and the state. Some of these young men "dropped out" of mainstream ultra-Orthodox or religious Zionist society because of crime or drug problems. Another segment of the Hilltop Youth stresses a connection to the land and nature, but its worldview is ultra-Kahanist. In the past, hookups between these two groups have given rise to attempts to attack the Temple Mount. The Lifta Gang, "nature lovers" who lived near the spring at the entrance to Jerusalem, teamed up with a "newly religious" criminal of the Shimon Barda type (January 1984) and almost succeeded in blowing up the mosques on the mount. Uzi Mahsiya Ha'elyon and Yehuda Limai, members of the Lifta Gang who were later acquitted in court, used to compare the two domes of the Temple Mount mosques to two foreskins that had to be removed. The only people capable of reaching such groups - or groups that are not "kabbalistic," but view blowing up the Temple Mount as an effective means of torpedoing the evacuation of Gush Katif - in order to prevent an attack on the mount and the disaster that the Muslim world would wreak on us in retaliation, are the rabbis of the Temple Mount movements. Most of these rabbis understand that blowing up the mosques would not only fail to hasten the redemption or prevent territorial withdrawals and settlement evacuations, but would in fact accelerate the withdrawals and evacuations. Most also understand that even though it might have been possible to act differently 37 years ago and establish a significant Jewish presence on the mount, the wall that separates the people of Israel from the mount would only be reinforced by such a mad act, while the state of Israel and its government would pay a much higher price, first and foremost on the Temple Mount, if the mosques were damaged. There is no point in talking to them about the risks inherent in such an act. But about the guaranteed collapse of their dream, of which a small portion might still be obtainable via a final-status agreement, there is most certainly a point in talking to them. haaretz.com