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To: Elroy who wrote (66772)	12/22/2004 1:27:53 PM
From: RetiredNow	Respond to of 77397

The above says to me your company can't find local qualified engineers in China, so they need to pay expats to move there. That contradicts the idea that India and China are turning out engineers at a rate of ten to the West's one. No, you must have misread the post. First off, what my post said was that the manager position was offering relocation. The engineering jobs are probably for recruiting locally and probably pay less than here in the U.S. But the management position is being recruited in both locations. What this tells me is that management jobs are being shipped overseas. One of the things that used to make me feel safe is that I used to and continue to manage teams all over the world, from my location in the U.S. However, if this trend continues, jobs like mine may move overseas. If I don't move with them, then the possibility exists I could lose my job. That's a trend that shouldn't be ignored by the U.S. When we start to lose management jobs, this is serious business.

To: Elroy who wrote (66772)	12/23/2004 10:33:58 PM
From: RetiredNow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 77397

Hi Elroy, here's more evidence of the deflation of U.S. wages among engineers... Offshoring said to zap electrical engineers' wages Thu Dec 23, 2004 05:44 PM ET LOS ANGELES, Dec 23 (Reuters) - Electrical engineers have come in for a shock: for the first time in more than three decades of technological innovation, their salaries are dropping. The median salary of an electrical engineer working in the United States fell $1,500 in 2003, according to a survey released this week by the IEEE-USA, a membership organization of 225,000 engineers. It was the first drop since the group started tallying data in 1972. "These results are disturbing, but not surprising," IEEE-USA President John Steadman said in a statement. The group blamed a combination of offshore outsourcing, competition from foreigners on guest worker visas, and rising health insurance costs. The drop contrasts with growth in overall U.S. personal income of more than 3 percent in 2003. Electrical engineers, who were critical to the development of the personal computer, the cellular phone and the Internet, have seen their salaries rise commensurate with the importance of electronics in society. Ten years ago, the median salary was $67,000. By 2002, that had grown to $101,000. In 2003, the median wage dropped to $99,500. The decline bolsters claims that the move by some U.S. employers to relocate technology jobs to places like India and China is squeezing local employees. "It's tough for someone to go demand a raise when they know they could lose their job overseas," said IEEE-USA spokesman Chris McManes.