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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: michael97123 who wrote (154782)12/25/2004 12:37:02 PM
From: Sam  Respond to of 281500
 
McGovern has his history wrong; "Iraq" has been around for only about 75 years, not 6000. And it took quite awhile for the US become "friends and trading partners" with Vietnam. There still isn't much trade.

I wonder what this war's supporters will say if Bush actually does what McGovern and Carl want him to do (declare victory and leave after the elections). Will they continue to say, aha, we've liberated 50 million people?

Meanwhile, "mea culpas" from the military continue (sort of):

Army Historian Cites Lack of Postwar Plan
Major Calls Effort in Iraq 'Mediocre'
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 25, 2004; Page A01

The U.S. military invaded Iraq without a formal plan for occupying and stabilizing the country and this high-level failure continues to undercut what has been a "mediocre" Army effort there, an Army historian and strategist has concluded.

"There was no Phase IV plan" for occupying Iraq after the combat phase, writes Maj. Isaiah Wilson III, who served as an official historian of the campaign and later as a war planner in Iraq. While a variety of government offices had considered the possible situations that would follow a U.S. victory, Wilson writes, no one produced an actual document laying out a strategy to consolidate the victory after major combat operations ended.

"While there may have been 'plans' at the national level, and even within various agencies within the war zone, none of these 'plans' operationalized the problem beyond regime collapse" -- that is, laid out how U.S. forces would be moved and structured, Wilson writes in an essay that has been delivered at several academic conferences but not published. "There was no adequate operational plan for stability operations and support operations."

Similar criticisms have been made before, but until now they have not been stated so authoritatively and publicly by a military insider positioned to be familiar with top-secret planning. During the period in question, from April to June 2003, Wilson was a researcher for the Army's Operation Iraqi Freedom Study Group. Then, from July 2003 to March 2004, he was the chief war planner for the 101st Airborne Division, which was stationed in northern Iraq.

A copy of Wilson's study as presented at Cornell University in October was obtained by The Washington Post.

As a result of the failure to produce a plan, Wilson asserts, the U.S. military lost the dominant position in Iraq in the summer of 2003 and has been scrambling to recover ever since. "In the two to three months of ambiguous transition, U.S. forces slowly lost the momentum and the initiative . . . gained over an off-balanced enemy," he writes. "The United States, its Army and its coalition of the willing have been playing catch-up ever since."

It was only in November 2003, seven months after the fall of Baghdad, that U.S. occupation authorities produced a formal "Phase IV" plan for stability operations, Wilson reports. Phase I covers preparation for combat, followed by initial operations, Phase II, and combat, Phase III. Post-combat operations are called Phase IV.

Many in the Army have blamed Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other top Pentagon civilians for the unexpectedly difficult occupation of Iraq, but Wilson reserves his toughest criticism for Army commanders who, he concludes, failed to grasp the strategic situation in Iraq and so not did not plan properly for victory. He concludes that those who planned the war suffered from "stunted learning and a reluctance to adapt."

Army commanders still misunderstand the strategic problem they face and therefore are still pursuing a flawed approach, writes Wilson, who is scheduled to teach at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point next year. "Plainly stated, the 'western coalition' failed, and continues to fail, to see Operation Iraqi Freedom in its fullness," he asserts.

"Reluctance in even defining the situation . . . is perhaps the most telling indicator of a collective cognitive dissidence on part of the U.S. Army to recognize a war of rebellion, a people's war, even when they were fighting it," he comments.

Because of this failure, Wilson concludes, the U.S. military remains "perhaps in peril of losing the 'war,' even after supposedly winning it."

Overall, he grades the U.S. military performance in Iraq as "mediocre."

Wilson's essay amounts to an indictment of the education and performance of senior U.S. officials involved in the war. "U.S. war planners, practitioners and the civilian leadership conceived of the war far too narrowly" and tended to think of operations after the invasion "as someone else's mission," he says. In fact, Wilson says, those later operations were critical because they were needed to win the war rather than just decapitate Saddam Hussein's government.

Air Force Capt. Chris Karns, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command, which as the U.S. military headquarters for the Middle East oversaw planning for the war in Iraq, said, "A formal Phase IV plan did exist." He said he could not explain how Wilson came to a different conclusion.

Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks, who as chief of the Central Command led the war planning in 2002 and 2003, states in his recent memoir, "American Soldier," that throughout the planning for the invasion of Iraq, Phase IV stability operations were discussed. Occupation problems "commanded hours and days of discussion and debate among CENTCOM planners and Washington officials," he adds. At another point, he states, "I was confident in the Phase IV plan."

Asked about other officers' reaction to his essay, Wilson said in an e-mail Monday, "What active-duty feedback I have received (from military officers attending the conferences) has been relatively positive," with "general agreement with the premises I offer in the work."

He said he has no plans to publish the essay, in part because he would expect difficulty in getting the Army's approval, but said he did not object to having it written about. "I think this is something that has to get out, so it can be considered," he said in a telephone interview. "There actually is something we can fix here, in terms of operational planning."

In his analysis of U.S. military operations in 2003 in northern Iraq, Wilson also touches on another continuing criticism of the Bush administration's handling of Iraq -- the number of troops there. "The scarcity of available 'combat power' . . . greatly complicated the situation," he states.

Wilson contends that a lack of sufficient troops was a consequence of the earlier, larger problem of failing to understand that prevailing in Iraq involved more than just removing Hussein. "This overly simplistic conception of the 'war' led to a cascading undercutting of the war effort: too few troops, too little coordination with civilian and governmental/non-governmental agencies . . . and too little allotted time to achieve 'success,' " he writes.

washingtonpost.com



To: michael97123 who wrote (154782)12/25/2004 3:15:56 PM
From: KLP  Respond to of 281500
 
McGovern didn't convince the Democrat Party to fund the soldiers Johnson and the Democrats sent to Vietnam. Instead, McGovern voted to cut $30 Billion from the Defense budget.

Therefore, McGovern was a party to the deaths of about 58,000 American soldiers sent to Vietnam, who weren't properly equiped, nor funded.

As far as Biden is concerned....Biden was in favor of the US sending our Military to NATO to fight in Bosnia. This war was not authorized by the US Congress. Clinton said we would be out of there in one year. We went there in 1995. Couple of links....

Senate votes to approve NATO airstrikes over Kosovo
beqiraj.com

The president sent a letter Tuesday to congressional leaders seeking their support

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. Senate voted Tuesday evening 58-41 in favor of a resolution supporting U.S. participation in NATO military operations in Kosovo, just hours after Secretary-General Javier Solana gave the go-ahead for air raids in Yugoslavia.
The brief resolution states that "the president of the United States is authorized to conduct military air operations and missile strikes in cooperation with our NATO allies against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro)."

Although the measure passed, it was hardly an overwhelming show of support for President Clinton's Kosovo policy.

Thirty-eight Republicans, including Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott of Mississippi, and three Democrats -- Sens. Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico), Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin) and Ernest F. Hollings (D-South Carolina) -- opposed the resolution.

Told earlier in the day by Clinton that strikes against Serbian targets would proceed with or without congressional support, Senate leaders quickly crafted a bipartisan resolution of support -- and shelved earlier plans to vote on whether to block funds for such an operation.

And even though Majority Whip Don Nickles (R-Oklahoma) was part of a bipartisan group of senators who wrote the resolution of support, he voted against the measure.

"I'm concerned we're making a mistake. I just don't believe you can bomb a country into submission and force them into a peace agreement that they determine is against their interests," said Nickles before the vote.

"I don't believe you can bomb a country and say, 'We're going to bomb you until you agree to have stationed 28,000 troops in your homeland,'" Nickles said, noting that the fighting in Serbia has been going on for centuries.

Clinton, while maintaining he didn't need congressional approval to move forward with the airstrikes, sent a letter late in the day to congressional leaders seeking their support.

"Mr. Milosevic should have no doubt about our resolve. Therefore, without regard to our differing views on the Constitution about the use of force, I ask for your legislative support as we address the crisis in Kosovo," Clinton wrote.

"We all can be proud of our armed forces as they stand ready to answer the call of duty to the Balkans," Clinton added.

The arguments

Many Republicans voiced skepticism about the wisdom of airstrikes and complained that Clinton's consultation with Congress had come late in the process.

"We're coming close to starting World War III." - Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska)

"The president has finally grudgingly sent us a letter, not asking for our authorization, but for our support," Sen. Slade Gorton (R-Washington) said. "It is an authorization that the Senate of the United States in its wisdom should reject out of hand.

"This is not a matter for the use of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a matter demanded by our national security.
This is not a way that we would even settle the civil war taking place in Kosovo today," Gorton said during debate.

"This is a mistake. This is a civil war. We're going to regret it," said Sen. Robert Smith (R-New Hampshire).

And Sen. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) declared, "We're coming close to starting World War III."

Other senators wanted more facts about the mission before they voted to back it.

"This is a very, very unintelligible plan. You can't rationally accept the president's reasoning unless you conclude that they don't want to tell you where it's going to end up," said Sen. Pete Domenici (R-New Mexico).

"It doesn't take a lot of sense to say airstrike No. 1 may not work. Airstrike No. 2 may not work. We've been told by military experts years ago that airstrikes would not work in this area of the world," Domenici insisted.

Other senators disagreed.

"Clearly we know what the goal is here. The goal is to contain Milosevic. The goal is to stop the extraordinary violation of human rights. The goal is to undermine his military capability," Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-South Dakota) said. "We can achieve those goals."

"This is about stability in Europe," Sen. Joseph Biden (D-Delaware) said in support of the resolution.

"I believe it would be a disastrous situation in the region if we don't act. This is a 19-nation operation," Sen. John Warner (R-Virginia) said.

Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-Connecticut) said if NATO doesn't act, "a massacre will occur" in Kosovo as Serb troops continue their offensive.

Clinton invited to explain Kosovo policy

House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Illinois) has invited Clinton to explain his Kosovo policy to a joint session of Congress.

Clinton is said to be considering it.

"I would hope that the president would come forward on a timely basis and do two things: Lay this out to the Congress and the American people, and also come forward with a plan for how we're going to pay for it," Hastert said during a photo opportunity.

Senator of Serb descent votes no

Sen. George Voinovich (R-Ohio), who is of Serb descent, voted against the resolution. He said earlier that bombing Yugoslavia would be a mistake.

"You're getting into something that could turn into another Vietnam," the freshman Republican said. "Who knows how this thing could escalate?"

Voinovich emphasized his view does not reflect support for Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic, whom the senator described as a war criminal, "a bad person."

The opinion of many Serbs around the world, Voinovich said, is that Milosevic should be out of power, but "they believe this action is going to solidify his support so that it will be 10 times harder to get him out."

Russian also compares it to Vietnam

Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeyev also warned NATO on Tuesday that military strikes against Yugoslavia could lead to a conflict like the military action the United States waged in the 1960 and '70s in southeast Asia, Interfax news agency said.

"NATO strikes against Yugoslavia may turn out to be another Vietnam, now inside Europe," Interfax quoted Sergeyev as saying.



To: michael97123 who wrote (154782)12/25/2004 3:19:33 PM
From: KLP  Respond to of 281500
 
Quietly, America leaves Bosnia, 9 years AFTER Clinton said we would leave. U.S. Troops Mark End Of Mission In Bosnia
Associated Press
Thursday, November 25, 2004; Page A19

washingtonpost.com

TUZLA, Bosnia, Nov. 24 -- U.S. troops marked the end of their nine-year peacekeeping role in Bosnia on Wednesday as NATO prepared to hand over the task to the European Union in December.

A small number of U.S. troops will stay in Bosnia to hunt war crime suspects and help the country reform its military.




"This ceremony officially marks mission complete and mission accomplished," Gen. B.B. Bell, commander of U.S. Army, Europe, said in a ceremony at Eagle Base in Tuzla, where most of the U.S. troops in Bosnia have been based.

More than 60,000 NATO-led troops from more than 40 countries were deployed to Bosnia starting in late 1995 to enforce the Dayton peace agreement, which ended the 3 1/2-year war among the country's Serbs, Muslims and Croats. More than 200,000 people were killed during the war, and 1.8 million became refugees.

The security situation has improved over the years, allowing NATO to decrease the number of troops to 7,000.

NATO will be handing over the peacekeeping mission to the European Union on Dec. 2, which means a withdrawal of most of the 700 U.S. troops currently in Bosnia. They will be replaced by E.U. personnel, with the biggest contingent coming from Finland.

About 150 U.S. troops will stay at Eagle Base to help local authorities adopt defense reforms and hunt war crime suspects.

Bosnia's two most wanted fugitives are wartime Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic and his top general, Ratko Mladic, both charged with genocide and crimes against humanity nine years ago.

The European Union Force will keep 7,000 troops in Bosnia.