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Strategies & Market Trends : Winter in the Great White North -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: russet who wrote (6133)	1/4/2005 5:39:20 PM
From: teevee	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 8273

Exactly, for the most part, if not the whole part, naked shorting, however fraudulent, is no worse a crime than what the promoters of the underlying stock are trying to perpetrate on their shareholders,...in fact in many cases the same promoters and insiders and their financiers are the ones doing naked shorting. so true....its tough enough to make a buck on junior pos listed on the TSX or TSX-venture exchange. I won't touch any junior stock listed on the pink sheets etc.-IMO, its like taking a fist full of cash and burning it.

To: russet who wrote (6133)	1/4/2005 11:29:50 PM
From: marcos	Respond to of 8273

But the insiders are able to create new paper at will, so they can never be truly irreversibly naked short .... you can think of their temporarily naked short sales as hedging against future share production -g- .... one is not much worse a crime than the other, true, but imho they are both serious .... some say that naked shorting is the only effective measure for tempering unreasonable ramp jobs of crapstocks, because without it the crims are able to control the market ... this may or may not be so, to a degree, but even if it is there is a price paid - it is likely not only the crapstocks getting their sharepaper invented out of thin air by MMs, but legitimate startup and development outfits as well And it all raises the risks and costs for such people ... look at EC with Wildcat here - he would face less problems getting listed, and likely less regulatory cost, in a common-sense world where something as obviously criminal as naked shorting was an indictable offense, and the law enforced fast and firmly, and by the same principles any of these crapstock promoters caught making fraudulent statements were dealt with severely Both practices constitute fraud - to sell something that does not in fact exist is to lie for profit, just as blatantly so as any promoter hyping some PoS ... and in a reasonable world it would be equally covered under the criminal code, and no special legislation needed either, seems to me it's covered just as well under 380(1) as under the more specific 380(2) - ' 380. (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service, (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding ten years, where the subject-matter of the offence is a testamentary instrument or the value of the subject-matter of the offence exceeds five thousand dollars; or (b) is guilty (i) of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or (ii) of an offence punishable on summary conviction, where the value of the subject-matter of the offence does not exceed five thousand dollars. (2) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, with intent to defraud, affects the public market price of stocks, shares, merchandise or anything that is offered for sale to the public is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years. laws.justice.gc.ca Simple really, the problem is these laws are not enforced ... here's a mountie school brief on false pretence and fraud etc [looks like the CC starts with that sort of thing around section 361] - rcmp-learning.org