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To: BWAC who wrote (52689)	1/6/2005 3:28:19 PM
From: E.J. Neitz Jr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 53068

The central figure in this SSI agenda is Alan Greenspan....he has been touting reform for years.......he screwed the retired first with absurdly low interest rates(and created a real estate bubble--see following GS comment) and now he is the point man in this. The old fa_t keeps a workin and workin. Economic Insight--Goldman Sachs Research Irrational exuberance revisited? 01/06/05 7:47am ET The minutes from the December 14 FOMC meeting specifically mention "reports that speculative demands were becoming apparent in the markets for single-family homes and condominiums" as part of a more general discussion about excessive risk taking. Is the FOMC becoming concerned about a housing market bubble? Now that the growth outlook appears to be on firmer footing, Fed officials can turn their attention to potential excesses in the economy. Elevated housing prices are one of these, although not yet a major worry, judging from the full content of the minutes and Fed officials' statements. The housing boom does exhibit some "bubble" characteristics--speculative activity has increased and expectations of future returns are clearly unrealistic--but the degree of overvaluation appears much more modest than the extremes of the 1990's stock-market boom. The key factor supporting current housing prices is the low level of long-term interest rates. At present mortgage rates, valuations look only modestly stretched in most regions. But if forecasters' expectations of rising rates are finally realized, an extended period of flat to falling prices is in store, with California and the Northeast most likely to see outright declines.

To: BWAC who wrote (52689)	1/6/2005 4:03:59 PM
From: R2O	Respond to of 53068

most important disasterous undertakings of modern times Or at least since the last time SS was 'fixed' (80s). At that time they 'fixed' it by making us involuntarily 'invest' in gov't bonds with the surplus (over and above SS current needs) payroll tax they forced us to contribute. It all amounts to the same thing: 'We' buy (by force of law) special gov't bonds. This is an obligation of USA. It must be payed IN THE FUTURE. In the future it will be payed for by involuntary collections from all of us. That's the way it is. Give it a 'name' of solvency, insolvency --- whatever. We will pay for it through taxes in the future without paying the pain of resent expense. If, instead of involuntarily 'investing' this surplus, we just let the contributors keep it, the gov't obligations would NOT INCREASE. They would actually DECREASE since gov't would not be liable for the interest due on these 'special' bonds (only for the future SS obligation, which ought not be reduced). Why do it? Simple shell game. We get to include the 'surplus' in present, and hide the liability in the future: magic 'deficit reduction'. Private citizens setting up a scheme like this would go to jail. Too bad we can't but our 'saviour' legislators away.

To: BWAC who wrote (52689)	1/6/2005 4:48:09 PM
From: Suma	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 53068

Agreed with your post on the worst disaster for the working class, and lower tiers of middle class Americans. I am experiencing the new reforms put into place for Medicare REFORM commencing with January 1st. Not happy one bit. Although SS will not effect me as I am in my seventies I feel badly for all of those who are still working and the future again of our Country as we once knew it. OR I once knew it. What's the alternative. Maybe it will not go through. A lot of what has concerned me lately has had the gauntlet taken up by members of Congress and other groups. Who knows.