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To: Bill Ulrich who wrote (94503)	1/10/2005 6:48:23 AM
From: RinConRon	Respond to of 793790

That's correct. I'm no expert on this, but I have a nephew who was an xo on a Los Angeles class (688) attack sub. There is a lot he can't say because he honors an oath to the Navy. But he has mentioned many times that we would be amazed at what they can "see" with sonar. But active sonar is used sparingly because it is a giveaway. You are right about a possible injustice to the sub's commander, but the Navy is the most tradition bound of the services, and running into things is considered bad seamanship and unforgivable.

To: Bill Ulrich who wrote (94503)	1/10/2005 10:29:49 PM
From: pheilman_	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793790

The entire point of sending a submarine out, is to have it disappear. The thickness of the ocean takes care of most of this, the rest is achieved with very quiet ships. This was named for a city, so, I believe it was a fast attack boat. The sea bottom has been previously mapped, in detail, by the Navy. The submarine uses inertial navigation while submerged to determine its location. The GPS system can only be used while running at the surface, RF waves are attenuated very quickly by the ocean. The long term drift of the inertial navigation system is compensated for by having several and averaging. Perhaps the error came at the end of a long run, perhaps the sea mount is new. The captain is still going to, correctly, get blamed. Passive sonar (fancy words for "listening") detects other ship noise, going active negates the entire purpose of the submarine. The active sonar goes out like a headlight and would easily show depth and nearby terrain, just like a fish finder. It also gives pinpoint location of the transmitter. Active sonar is not just noisy, it is noisy at the frequencies that everyone else can listen and locate at.