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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: neolib who wrote (156428)	1/16/2005 10:17:05 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

They do have some legit reasons, and we always revert to something like you say above, which IMO is delusional. Um, their grievances as they recite them start with La Reconquista (think 1492) and go on from there, including Attaturk's elimination of the Caliphate, the British and French colonialization of the ex-Ottoman empire, the creation of Israel, and the general upside-down status of the world, where Muslim aren't on top ruling infidels like Allah told them they would always be. And oh yes, the crummy lot of kleptocrats who are ruling the Arab world today. I would say that there some legitimate grievances buried in that pile, but it doesn't a) add up to anything I would call a "legit reason", since I don't agree with the basic premise that Muslims should live in the caliphate and rule infidels, and b) their proposed cure is lots worse than the disease. They have combined fundamentalism - and not just any fundamentalism, but the fundamentalism of a credal and literalist religion - and fascism, and both -isms tell them they have a right to kill millions for the sake of their Utopia. At this point, we have more important things to discuss than the potential legitimacy of certain of their original gripes, imo.

To: neolib who wrote (156428)	1/17/2005 8:58:17 AM
From: alanib	Respond to of 281500

We disagree greatly here. I am very much in agreement with Pat B. on this subject. They do have some legit reasons, and we always revert to something like you say above, which IMO is delusional. I agree, some of our actions have provoked others in the world to take up arms against us. The thing is that ignorant, troubled people everywhere, including many from the USA, are propagandized by influencial others with a selfish agenda to bleed and die in the name of some ideal or cause and usually to deflect their ire from the basic cause of their misery. If the common islamic peasant had a decent education and a decent share of the money that the US spends buying oil from his potentates, do you believe he would be so ready to sacrifice himself as a suicide bomber for OBL's version of Islam? If the economy of the US was better do you think that so many young people would join the military and subject themselves to becoming roadside bomb fodder in Iraq for GWB's rediculous adventure to enrich his special interest friends. What has become of our democracy by the powerful hands of the special interests and their money is very very sad. Until the American people wake up in mass and take back their country from these manipulating scavengers this country will further trample the welfare of its own citizens and many in other parts of the world. Our greatest tool to creating a movement in the right direction is the communication made possible by the internet. If we can educate a majority of the people to get past tribalism, superstition, and religion to a point of rational thinking we all have a chance. Otherwise we are doomed to go on feuding with each other over forgotten insults while the rich get richer.