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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: lorne who wrote (1189)	1/17/2005 9:56:06 PM
From: lorne	Respond to of 224718

'ISLAMIC HATE' EYED IN SLAYS By DOUGLAS MONTERO and STEFAN C. FRIEDMAN newyorkpost.com January 16, 2005 -- The father of a murdered New Jersey family was threatened for making anti-Muslim remarks online — and the gruesome quadruple slaying may have been the hateful retaliation, sources told The Post yesterday. Hossam Armanious, 47, who along with his wife and two daughters was found stabbed to death in his Jersey City home early Friday, would regularly debate religion in a Middle Eastern chat room, one source said. Armanious, an Egyptian Christian, was well known for expressing his Coptic beliefs and engaging in fiery back-and-forth with Muslims on the Web site paltalk.com. He "had the reputation for being one of the most outspoken Egyptian Christians," said the source, who had close ties to the family. The source, who had knowledge of the investigation, refused to specify the anti-Muslim statement. But he said cops told him they were looking into the exchanges as a possible motive. The married father of two had recently been threatened by Muslim members of the Web site, said a fellow Copt and store clerk who uses the chat room. "You'd better stop this bull---- or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you," was the threat, said the clerk, who was online at the time and saw the exchange. But Armanious refused to back down, according to two sources who use the Web site. Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy would neither confirm nor deny that cops and prosecutors were looking into the religion motive, saying only that "nothing is being ruled out." But a relative of the mayor who answered the phone at Healy's home said there was information the murders were "religion-related." "There are several theories we are looking into, but we are not commenting on any of them at this time," said Hudson County Assistant Prosecutor Guy Gregory. Armanious' fervor apparently rubbed off on his daughter, Sylvia — who would have turned 16 yesterday. "She was very religious and very opinionated," said Jessica Cimino, 15, a fellow sophomore at Dickenson HS. A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment. "When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia," said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore's great-uncle. The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia's throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross. Also found murdered were the wife, Amal Garas, and the parents' other daughter, Monica. Fred Ayed, the deacon at St. George and St. Shenouda Church, where the deeply religious family attended services, said he's worried that the murders could have a ripple effect. "I am concerned for the safety of our community," said Ayed, who knew Hossam for 30 years. "People are scared because one family was slain like cows," said Moheb Ghabour, publisher of a local newspaper for the Coptic community. Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly. "I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said. Both the deacon and uncle poured cold water on the theory that the family were the victims of a robbery gone wrong. "This is not a robbery, Ayed said. "We found all of the jewelry in the house. They didn't take anything." The FBI confirmed it has been called in to help with the case.

To: lorne who wrote (1189)	1/17/2005 10:30:52 PM
From: Bearcatbob	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 224718

The only solution to radical Islam lies within Islam itself. Until they face up to the threat they will be doomed to a life of limited opportunity for they and their children. We can do nothing to solve the problem. The bordes of Islam bleed - think of that when someone says it is only Israel - lol - it is from the Phillipines to Alegeria - south to the Sudan and north into Europe.

To: lorne who wrote (1189)	1/18/2005 8:20:08 AM
From: cirrus	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 224718

It appears to me that you seem to feel that the shia moslums are just using America to gain control and after they gain full control they will likely join forces with Iran one of America's enemies. You also seem to think that the different factions of moslums can not be trusted just as I do. If it's a question of trust, we should remember that after the first Gulf War George Bush Sr. publicly urged Iraqis to rise up against Saddam. The Shiites in Southern Iraq did. Then, with hundreds of thousands of American troops still in the war zone, with thousands still in Iraq, Saddam used what was left of his armed forces to crush the revolt, killing thousands of Shiites. After that debacle, many Shia took refuge in neighboring Iran, whose branch of Islam is similar to that practiced by the Iraqi Shia. Now Saddam is gone, at some point within the next ten years American troops will probably be gone, leaving the Shiites to deal with their Sunni neighbors. Where is the natural alliance? With America, half a world away, or with Iranian Shia, across the river? You use the phrase "join forces with Iran, one of America's enemies." I don't think that is entirely accurate. The Iraqi and Iranian Shia are close and share a cultural heritage, but they are not a monolithic entity. The situation in Islam is not unlike what exists in many religions... Catholics, for example, are led by the Pope. Yet many who consider themselves good Catholics openly disagree with the Pope on a number of issues. The situation with the Shia in Iraq is similar. Yes, there is a natural bond between the Iraqi and Iranian Shia, but it is not absolute. The Iraqi Shia will act in their own perceived self-interest. If that means siding with America to protect themselves from hostile Sunnis, that's what they will do. If it means broadly alligning themselves with Iran to have some influence in a post-Saddam era, thats what they will do. You consider such actions "untrustworthy". However, if that's the case, Bush Sr. was untrustworthy. Catholics are untrustworthy. The French? LOL! Perhaps even Americans who voted against Bush a few months ago are untrustworthy? Despite George's famous line, "You are with us or against us." It's simply not that black and white. To illustrate that another way, even black and white George has had to deal with Pakistan, a nation that has refused to allow it's top nuclear scientist, a kingpin in the proliferation of nuclear technology to, among others, Iran, to be questioned by US experts. Despite intelligence that Osama is in Northern Pakistan, Pakistan has simply said "No, he is not there." and ceased military operations in that region. Untrustworthy? Or trustworthy to a degree? Interesting world we live in, isn't it?