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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (95838)	1/19/2005 1:04:45 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 793840

Paula Radcliffe runs the marathon in 2:15? Astonishing. There's less than 10 minutes difference between her and the Kenyans! Edit: I see that the Kenyans are now running sub-2:05. Wow!

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (95838)	1/19/2005 1:53:36 PM
From: TimF	Respond to of 793840

Wayne Gretsky, Ichiro, McEnroe, and Borg are not muscle bound giants but they are or at least where all strong and powerful compared to average people or female athletes (except female weightlifters and such) In figure skating, equestrian sports, swimming, gymnastics, long distance endurance running (marathon & ultra marathons) the female anatomy may be better suited. Figure skating and gymnastics are about subjective judgments. Objectively a man would tend to have more of a problem on the balance beam unless it scaled up to his larger size, a woman would probably have more problems on the rings, but in a lot of events they could theoretically compete together against each other. In equestrian sports the power mainly comes from the horse so women should (and to my understanding don't) have any problems competing against and beating men. Michelle Wie right now isn't among the top woman players (about 90th on the money list) but she is very young. She might someday be able to compete against the men as might other exceptional women. If she has the ability to do so I certainly would not want to get in her way. Golf is mainly about technique and precision, but power is a secondary factor. There is a reason why there is an LPGA and its not just past discrimination. What difference will it make if Michelle Wie beats Tiger Woods in golf, if Serena Williams can beat John McEnroe in Tennis, Wie is unlikely to beat Tiger or Singh unless they where having a bad day. (assuming she is hitting from the men's tees). Serena Williams might be able to beat McEnroe. He is retired. But can she beat the top men's tennis players playing under rules that don't give her any advantage? or Paula Radcliff beats the best American (home grown) marathon runner The top 200 men's performance of all time all blow away her woman's record. I couldn't find records that went past 200. As for American men Alan Culpepper's best time beats Radcliff's best by over 5 minutes. Greg Meyer, Ron Tabb and Benji Durden all beat Radcliff's best time in the same race. Alberto Salazar who was born in Cuba but came to the US at two and ran a 2:08:13 The lesson is, we should not let bigotry limit us from achieving our full potential. I agree with that lesson. I don't think any effort should be made to keep women from reaching their full potential (assuming they are doing so in legal and positive ways). I just talking about the facts not making policy proposals. Bigotry is not limited to race, gender, and creed. Bigotry is just stupid stuff. Recognizing the physical differences between man and women is not bigotry. I'm not saying women shouldn't be allowed to compete against men, or that they shouldn't try to do so. I am saying that in many sports they are unlikely to be able to compete against men at an elite level, but if they want to try more power to them. If they manage to surprise me and succeed in sports like tennis or golf or long distance running than great. If they surprise me more and can actually beat the best men in sports like sprinting or basketball or football or the hammer throw or powerlifting, I'm not going to be sad about it. I just don't think that its very likely. The difference between the athletic performance of men and women is not entirely due to social and historical reasons. In things like track and field I think most of, or at very least a big chunk of, the remaining difference is due to physical differences. Tim