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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Oeconomicus who wrote (94052)	1/19/2005 4:09:28 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 108807

So then what are you saying here? "I believe asserting that they have a "right" to flap their wings, or more generally that animals have "rights" at all, is a round-about way of asserting that humans have NO right to harm them in any way, much less eat them. If chickens should be allowed to flap their wings or if preventing them from doing so is cruel, that is a judgement only man (or perhaps God, if you believe God exists) has the capacity to make." Are you simply arguing for argument's sake? I enjoy bringing ideas forward, but find that most arguments usually become less abstract and deal with facts or fallacies behind arguments. I bore quickly with lawyer-like word play. As I see it you made light of animal rights issues because you didn't like the idea of a circular argument. Circular or not, there is an ACTUAL argument to be made in favor of, or against, animal rights, and I do not believe I understand your position.

To: Oeconomicus who wrote (94052)	1/19/2005 4:19:09 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

So then what are you saying here? At one point you seem to be saying that any consideration of animal rights might get in the way of your enjoying eating chicken, for example, but there is an animal rights movement that advocates humane care of meat animals as well. "I believe asserting that they have a "right" to flap their wings, or more generally that animals have "rights" at all, is a round-about way of asserting that humans have NO right to harm them in any way, much less eat them. If chickens should be allowed to flap their wings or if preventing them from doing so is cruel, that is a judgement only man (or perhaps God, if you believe God exists) has the capacity to make." Are you simply arguing for argument's sake? I enjoy bringing ideas forward, but find that most arguments usually become less abstract and deal with facts or fallacies behind arguments. I bore quickly with lawyer-like word play. As I see it, you made light of animal rights issues because you didn't like the idea of a circular argument. Circular or not, there is an ACTUAL argument to be made in favor of, or against, animal rights, and I do not believe I understand your position on the matter. We were not talking about artificial insemination or milking practices. We could discuss those issues, but at the moment I would perceive that as changing the subject. We were talking about keeping chickens for their entire lives in such crowded spaces they cannot flap their wings or live in daylight, battering and stomping them to death, chopping off their beaks without anaesthesia, etc. Do you believe it is right to keep chickens under the factory farm conditions that are considered normal in this country? Do you eat Kentucky Fried Chicken or the kind of chickens that are available at every supermarket, and their eggs? If so, you are supporting this level of factory farming, perhaps without even realizing it. I certainly did not realize it when I ate chickens and eggs.