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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Taro who wrote (215930)	1/25/2005 8:48:05 AM
From: Alighieri	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1573365

The pix may be slightly corny but this is all true US tradition and more. Maybe they (your statesmen) were all extreme GOPs? How telling that these same people were the ones to write language separating church from state. They seem to have been considerably wiser than conservative politicians of today. Al

To: Taro who wrote (215930)	1/25/2005 2:56:24 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1573365

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/forsakenroots.html The pix may be slightly corny but this is all true US tradition and more. Maybe they (your statesmen) were all extreme GOPs? No matter how religious they were, the FF knew that they did not want the same arrangement that existed between church and state in Europe at the time. I see nothing wrong with people practicing their religion in the privacy of their homes and churches but keep it out of the gov't. Our FF knew what they were doing. I have included the now famous letter from Thomas Jefferson circa 1802. Jefferson was very clear how he saw things: Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them, asking why he would not proclaim national days of fasting and thanksiving, as had been done by Washington and Adams before him. The letter contains the phrase "wall of separation between church and state," which led to the short-hand for the Establishment Clause that we use today: "Separation of church and state." The letter was the subject of intense scrutiny by Jefferson, and he consulted a couple of New England politicians to assure that his words would not offend while still conveying his message: it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion. Note: The bracketed section in the second paragraph had been blocked off for deletion, though it was not actually deleted in his draft of the letter. It is included here for completeness. Reflecting upon Jefferson's knowledge that his letter was far from a mere personal correspondence, he deleted the block, he says in the margin, to avoid offending members of his party in the eastern states. This is a transcript of the letter as stored online at the Library of Congress, and reflects Jefferson's spelling and punctuation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mr. President To mess? Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut. Gentlemen The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing. Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. (signed) Thomas Jefferson Jan.1.1802.