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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (157151)	1/27/2005 8:41:49 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The experiment was about authority that is respected. The Weimar was weak, and had no authority after the worldwide depression and the US request for repayment of loans left Germany crippled. People respect lab coated scientists and expect them to be "right". People respect governments that work, and don't respect governments that seem to be falling apart. The Nazis had given the Germans a sense of pride after the horrible indignity of Versailles, and had managed to bring the country back from economic ruin and remilitarize it (remember the Weimar was abiding by the treaty and did not remilitarize, and this was a deep wound to the German psyche.) The Nazis earned the trust of the German people by producing a "better" society for them- and so the Germans repaid the trust by following orders. In countries with passionate nationalists following orders can be a problem, when the orders they are following are inherently uncivilized. It is not just the Nazis who were prone to obey commanding authority, humans are prone to obey commanding authority. It doesn't take much of a framework- a mere institution is enough- a police force, a military, whatever...

To: Neocon who wrote (157151)	1/27/2005 10:26:08 AM
From: Elsewhere	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I read an interesting interview in the WELT today, with historian Ulrich Herbert, a specialist on National Socialists and their extermination policy. Der Massenmord war nicht geheim Ein Gespräch mit dem Historiker Ulrich Herbert über die Geschichtswissenschaft und den Holocaust The mass murdering was not secret A talk with historian Ulrich Herbert on the science of history and the Shoah welt.de (Too long for me to translate manually. Herbert's home page: geschichte.uni-freiburg.de ) It seems that we are mirroring the discussion which took place between "intentionalists" and "structuralists". The former ones emphasized the evil will of the Nazis, the latter ones the influence of the system. Here are Herbert's last sentences in the interview (any English errors are mine): <"Die Aufgabe der Historiker ist es, die Aufmerksamkeit immer wieder auf das Geschehen selbst zu richten. Sie schaffen für das Publikum die Voraussetzungen, sich kundig, sich wissend zu machen, und zwar nicht nur ungefähr, sondern genau und im Einzelnen. Und nur das ist es, was heute von den Deutschen zu verlangen ist und auch verlangt wird: Keine großen symbolischen Gesten, sondern genau Bescheid zu wissen. Schuldgebeugt durchs Leben zu gehen, verlangt niemand von uns."> <It is the task of the historian to focus the attention on what happened. This enables the public to gain knowledge - not only superficially but in detail. This is what is being asked for from Germans: no big symbolic gestures but to know what happened. Nobody demands from us to lead a guilt-ridden life.>