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To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 10:08:17 AM
From: DMaA  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793883
 
Since W practically pledged during the election not to institute a draft, if he were to turn around and call for one now, that would squander ALL his accumulated political capital. Going forward he will need to make decisions based on the resorces he has now.

I continue to believe the only way to sustain our current worldwide deployment levels is going to require reinstating the draft.



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 11:33:49 AM
From: greenspirit1 Recommendation  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 793883
 
Mike, I appreciate your analysis, but I disagree, here's why.

1. Morale would not be lifted by enforcing people to join the service. Just the opposite would happen, just as it happened in Vietnam. The services would get a bunch of whiners who never wanted to join, and the senior enlisted would spend more time baby-sitting them, instead of focusing on the mission and improving performance.

2. There is nothing wrong with paying bonuses to recruit qualified people to fill needs. The submarine force has been giving bonuses for years to people of all rates and ranks in order to keep them in. Nuclear trained enlisted people can receive up to 60 grand to re-enlist, sometimes for as little as two years (I've actually given one check out in a no tax zone, talk about smiles all around). Why not pay those brave soldiers big bonuses? Bonuses will fill the vacuum (if it becomes serious), more rapidly and with greater depth than forced conscription. I think you underestimate the affect bonuses can have.

3. It's not politically feasible. The President has already given his word to the American people on this important subject, and breaking faith would also break faith with the troops and lower morale.

4. The American people, by large numbers, do not support a draft. Given our current situation, I think they would rather we left Iraq than force young men to fight and die there.

Mike



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 11:36:11 AM
From: rich evans  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793883
 
Unclewest:

I remember hearing in the Vietnam War that we set up Ranger camps ( alongthe coast, I believe) which were fully protected with noone allowed in or out(even the girls). From there the Rangers would go out for their missions.
So couldn't we set up secure camps in Iraq and use our mobility to continue to attack the terrorists in a similar way. Of course we would need intelligence and have SF or others out like the Lercs and Sogs of Vietnam. Anyway I think this is a different concept then the one you discussed. We would stay on the offensive but in a different way.
Rich



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 1:48:52 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793883
 
I could understand the need for a draft if we needed to mobilize millions in a hurry, but how many do you think we're going to need for Iraq, given your prediction of a "dip"?

You've posted before that it takes many years to prepare Special Forces, and my impression was that you did not think that draftees are a good pool for Special Forces types.

Maybe a better solution would be for the new Iraqi government to institute a draft of their own.

An even better solution would be for the Iraqi people to lift a finger towards solving their own problems internally. By which I do NOT mean that we should cut and run. But it IS their country, and they are NOT pulling their weight, at least in the trouble spots.



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 1:55:29 PM
From: Volsi Mimir  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793883
 
Recruiting problems --
Wouldn't the vote and subsequent effect
in Iraq define much of that equation.
This a focal point or beginning of the end
of military intervention(or re-assessment)
by this event.

All this talk about needing more and yet there
will be reductions in military bases (affecting
local economics)in the US and removal of international
establishments that affect a national view.

I think give them (the boots on the ground)
more money and better equipment
before the large dollar-programs that serve
mainly as pork, lets invest in those who defend
our liberty:
cdi.org

September 1, 2004
Don't Mind If I Do: Congress Says It's Going All Out for the Troops. Here's $8.9 Billion in Pork That Says It's Not.

First appeared in The Washington Post Aug. 22, 2004

We're in the middle of simultaneous wars against terrorism and insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the outcomes are anything but certain. To help fight these wars, Congress passed a gigantic $416 billion appropriations bill for the Department of Defense in July, which President Bush signed into law on Aug. 5. The measure, the president declared, ensures that "our armed forces have every tool they need to meet and defeat the threats of our time."

Well, not exactly. If you look at the hidden details of the legislation, it's clear that Congress has failed dismally — and deliberately — to fulfill its constitutional mandates to "raise and support armies" and to "provide and maintain a navy."

Legislators have amply demonstrated that what they're really interested in is raising and providing some home-state pork to impress voters in an election year. To that end, they have busied themselves with squeezing funds for war essentials such as training, weapons maintenance and spare parts — things troops in combat need more, not less, of — to send extra dollars their constituents' way. And it's equal-opportunity raiding: Both Republicans and Democrats have been fully engaged in this behavior. Even Capitol Hill's self-proclaimed "pork buster," Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, who has made a regular practice of calling his colleagues on their gluttony, has essentially given the gorging a wink and a nod.

A pork-hungry Congress has long been with us, of course, but this year, with our armed forces engaged on two major fronts, Congress has pushed the pork in the defense budget to an all-time high, totaling $8.9 billion. And even as they did so — and voted to fund wartime operations at only a fraction of what nearly all analysts agree is needed for the duration of 2005 — conservatives, liberals and moderates alike have presented themselves as doing everything they can think of to support the troops in the field. Don't believe it.

A brief examination of how the Senate, where I worked for three decades for senators from both parties, handled the defense appropriations bill this summer illustrates the chasm between appearances and reality. On June 24, the chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Alaska Republican Ted Stevens, rammed the $416 billion bill through the Senate in just a few hours. Forty-two amendments, the majority of them involving small spending projects promoted by senators with an eye on bringing home the bacon, were adopted by unrecorded "voice" votes — usually after cursory deliberation that failed even to explain the subject matter.

The next day's Congressional Record provided some details when it printed the text of the amendments. There, for example, you can find the amendment offered by Democratic Sen. Max Baucus for a grant to Rocky Mountain College in his state of Montana for three Piper aircraft and a simulator, and Republican Sen. Rick Santorum's $3 million add-on for an unbudgeted artificial lung device for the Army. By the time Congress had finished with the bill in July, House and Senate members had added more than 2,000 of these "earmarks," thereby achieving their new porcine record. Some of these items had at least some tenuous relevance to defense, but many didn't. None, though, had been included in the defense budget put together by DOD and the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), and there was subsequently little, if any, objective evaluation — for instance, either by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), the Government Accountability Office (GAO) or in a congressional hearing — of their cost and efficacy. Each one was literally a pig in a poke.

As usual, McCain performed the very useful task of highlighting many of the amendments, tallying up the cost and offering appropriately caustic remarks about his colleagues' penchant for "porking up our appropriations bills." Based on such revelations, a few journalists wrote articles about some of the foolishness, such as how Stevens and his fellow Alaska Republican, Sen. Lisa Murkowski, had junked up the bill with help for their state's fisheries.

But both McCain and the press were just going through the motions. With Stevens in a big rush to push the defense bill through in just one day, McCain helped speed things along by not taking the time to actually deliver his speech. Instead, he simply had Stevens insert the text into the Congressional Record. Stevens was probably happy to extend McCain this courtesy. Not only did the unspoken speech not draw undue attention to the Senate's goings-on that day, but McCain was also helping out by taking no parliamentary action against the pork-laden bill. He didn't even throw up a speed bump by seeking recorded roll call votes, let alone any real debate, on the pork amendments. Roll call votes take at least 15 minutes each, and spending that much time on a few dozen amendments was apparently more inconvenience than McCain was willing to impose.

Worse still, McCain's printed speech also praised the Appropriations Committee and the Armed Services Committee, which had passed a bill authorizing the defense spending, and on which he is the second most senior Republican, for writing bills that "will enable us to continue to meet our obligations to support [armed] service members in the fight against terror." It is true that the bills add spending for personal armor for soldiers and other items that the committees eagerly flagged to the media and public, but other aspects of the legislation, about which they were all too quiet, reveal actions that take out much more than they put in.

In parts of the bill that no one talked about, the Armed Services Committee raided the accounts that support combat readiness. Specifically, the committee cut Army depot weapons maintenance by $100 million (just when the repair backlog from the wars has grown to unmanageable proportions), and it removed $1.5 billion from the services' "working capital funds" for transportation and consumables (e.g. helicopter rotor blades, tank tracks, spare parts, fuel, food and much more). In one unseemly move, the committee also cut from one account $532 million for civilian repair technicians activated to support the deployed forces, claiming the money should have been credited elsewhere in the bill. But then it failed to add the money where it said it belonged.

In another feat of legislative trickery, the committee cut another $1.67 billion throughout the bill in anticipation of lower inflation in 2005 — a pretense at a savings that OMB said in written comments to the committee "do[es] not exist." OMB concluded that "the practical effect of these reductions would be cuts to critical readiness accounts." In response, the Armed Services Committee did nothing and urged the Senate to endorse its bill, which it did by a vote of 97-0 on June 23.

Thereafter, the Senate Appropriations Committee used other gimmicks to reduce essential defense accounts in its bill. By the time Congress had finished with the appropriations measure on July 22, I counted $4.534 billion in reductions, mostly buried in the General Provisions section in the back of the bill. Ostensibly labeled as "unobligated balances," "general reductions," "excessive growth," "adjustments" and savings due to "management improvements," these were simply offsets to accommodate the $8.9 billion pork invoice the appropriators wrote. That more than $2.8 billion of these cuts came in military pay and the Operations and Maintenance budgets that support soldiers' salaries, training, spare parts, weapons maintenance and military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan shows where the committee's real priorities lay.

Moreover, it is not as if Congress had not been told that its actions would cause problems: House and Senate hearings held in the spring and early summer, and a GAO study issued in July, were replete with assertions that the military services were facing underfunding for training, maintenance and purchases of spare parts. In June, OMB warned that "increasing Congressional reliance on reductions of an indiscriminate nature and increasing use of earmarks within the DOD budget will damage future military capabilities."

With no Republican doing anything to restore the funding cut from the war-fighting accounts or to stem the record-busting pork parade, you might think some Democrats would step in where McCain and others declined to tread. You'd be mistaken. There was nary a peep of complaint on the Senate floor. Feasting at the pork trough every bit as much as others, Democratic defense leaders such as Hawaii's Sen. Daniel Inouye, the top Democrat on the Appropriations Committee's defense subcommittee, spent his time and energy making sure his home state was well taken care of, adding funding for brown tree-snake eradication programs and health-care spending for Hawaii and the Pacific Islands. As far as I could determine from the Congressional Record, committee reports and conversations with former colleagues, others, such as Michigan Sen. Carl Levin, the top Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, did nothing to undo the mess.

As for President Bush and Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards, it's hard to say whether they are ignorant of the corrosive nature of congressional business as usual on defense, which seems unlikely, or are simply intimidated by the prospect of seriously fighting a system of debased values that sacrifices military readiness for selfish gain. In any case, none of them has made an effort to combat Congress's feeding frenzy.

And the media? Not for the first time, they were sound asleep. Using members' ready-for-publication news releases (or anonymous tips from their staffs) and fact sheets from the Appropriations Committee can help a harried journalist meet an impending deadline on long and complex legislation. But only part of the story will be told. Four hundred pages of legalese and small print tables in a bill and committee report can actually make some pretty interesting reading, but apparently no journalist seems to think so. I have looked for but failed to find even a single news article about the raids by the Armed Services and Appropriations committees on funding intended to help the armed forces fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's all there in the fiendish details, but they were ignored.

The consequences are serious. Extraordinarily expensive defense bills pass Congress, and the congressional authors are credited with being pro-defense heavies. Pork-busting reformers augment their already inflated reputations. The troops in the field think Washington is doing its best to help them, and the public believes no stone is left unturned to ensure that the nation's sons and daughters are being sent to war with all the training and other forms of support we would want for them.

In each case, the reality is quite different. Nonetheless, Congress is content; there's $8.9 billion in pork to impress the voters back home before the elections, and no one is the wiser about what is really being done to "raise and support armies" and "provide and maintain a navy" — or not.

Author's e-mail: winslowwheeler@comcast.net

Winslow Wheeler is a visiting senior fellow at the Center for Defense Information. His book, "The Wastrels of Defense: How Congress Sabotages U.S. Security," will be available from the Naval Institute Press in October.



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 5:10:51 PM
From: Hoa Hao  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793883
 
uw,
"Americans will enlist to fight. But if we begin to absorb similar rear echelon losses in Iraq, I predict recruiting is really going to drop.

Reenlistment bonuses may cover part of the recruiting problem for a while. Yet if our troops ever get the inclination that we have lost the will to fight, they will go home.

I see but one solution to the recruiting problem.
Reinstate the draft."

Are not the above statements sorta mutually exclusive?? How will a draft solve any thing while we lack the will to fight as we surely do now?? The Bush admin lacked the guts to "do" Fallujah way back when and had to wait til the election was over.
Right now, insurgents pour over the Syrian and Iranian borders just like the NVA coming down the trail and we are politically and militarily better positioned to do something to the Syrians and Iranians then N Vietnam, and we could have done anything we wanted to N Vietnam. We do nothing.

Bad news uw, patriotism is a mile wide and an inch deep. If you cannot get 150k volunteers to fight a WOT after they come in and kill 3000 NYers you have lost the will to fight already. The surprise is not that G Bush won the election, it's that John Kerry got so many votes.



To: unclewest who wrote (97134)1/27/2005 5:22:21 PM
From: Hoa Hao  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793883
 
Is this the sort of internal beliefs which will help us win the war??

rockymountainnews.com

CU prof's essay sparks dispute
Ward Churchill says 9/11 victims were not innocent people

By John C. Ensslin, Rocky Mountain News
January 27, 2005

A University of Colorado professor has sparked controversy in New York over an essay he wrote that maintains that people killed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks were not innocent victims.

Students and faculty members at Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., have been protesting a speaking appearance on Feb. 3 by Ward L. Churchill, chairman of the CU Ethnic Studies Department.

They are upset over an essay Churchill wrote titled, "Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens."

The essay takes its title from a remark that black activist Malcolm X made in the wake of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Malcolm X created controversy when he said Kennedy's murder was a case of "chickens coming home to roost."

Churchill's essay argues that the Sept. 11 attacks were in retaliation for the Iraqi children killed in a 1991 U.S. bombing raid and by economic sanctions imposed on Iraq by the United Nations following the Persian Gulf War.

The essay contends the hijackers who crashed airplanes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11 were "combat teams," not terrorists.

It states: "The most that can honestly be said of those involved on Sept. 11 is that they finally responded in kind to some of what this country has dispensed to their people as a matter of course."

The essay maintains that the people killed inside the Pentagon were "military targets."

"As for those in the World Trade Center," the essay said, "well, really, let's get a grip here, shall we? True enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break."

The essay goes on to describe the victims as "little Eichmanns," referring to Adolph Eichmann, who executed Adolph Hitler's plan to exterminate Jews during World War II.

Churchill said he was not especially surprised at the controversy at Hamilton, but he also defended the opinions contained in his essay.

"When you kill 500,000 children in order to impose your will on other countries, then you shouldn't be surprised when somebody responds in kind," Churchill said.

"If it's not comfortable, that's the point. It's not comfortable for the people on the other side, either."

The attacks on Sept. 11, he said, were "a natural and inevitable consequence of what happens as a result of business as usual in the United States. Wake up."

A longtime activist with the American Indian Movement, Churchill was one of eight defendants acquitted last week in Denver County Court on charges of disrupting Denver's Columbus Day parade.

His pending speech at Hamilton has drawn criticism from professors and students, including Matt Coppo, a sophomore whose father died in the World Trade Center attacks.

"His views are completely hurtful to the families of 3,000 people," Coppo said.

A spokesman for Hamilton College released a statement noting that Hamilton is committed to "the free exchange of ideas. We expect that many of those who strongly disagree with Mr. Churchill's comments will attend his talk and make their views known."

Controversial statements

In his essay Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens, CU professor Ward Churchill argues that:

• The Sept. 11 attacks were in retaliation for the Iraqi children who were killed in a 1991 bombing raid and for economic sanctions imposed on Iraq by the United Nations following the Persian Gulf War.

• Hijackers who crashed jets into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11 were "combat teams," not terrorists.

• The people killed inside the Pentagon were "military targets."