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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (157221)	1/27/2005 6:27:19 PM
From: GST	Respond to of 281500

Torture of prisoners is illegal in America -- and it is illegal for one hell of a good reason. There is no "if" about torture, and you failed utterly to substantiate any "ifs".

To: Neocon who wrote (157221)	1/27/2005 7:25:32 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Now here is a real case of torture, that you won't see reported in the MSM: Family of 'collaborator' demands justice By KHALED ABU TOAMEH The family of a mentally retarded Palestinian man who was tortured to death earlier this month on charges of "collaboration" with Israel is demanding that the Palestinian Authority launch an investigation into the case and bring the murderers to trial. The Jerusalem-based Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group has also called for an inquiry into the murder, which was carried out by Fatah gunmen belonging to the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades militia. Mohammad Noubani, a 36-year-old father of three from the village of Deir Ghassaneh near Ramallah, was kidnapped by Fatah gunmen in mid-January on suspicion that he was a "collaborator" with Israel. According to testimonies collected by the human rights group, Noubani's hands were tied to his back and he was hung naked on an olive branch. He was tortured sadistically and forced to admit that he was a "collaborator." It said Noubani was beaten severely and the kidnappers extinguished cigarettes on his body. After the gunmen tortured him for two days, they left him half dead. Noubani was transferred to a hospital in Ramallah, where he was pronounced dead, the group said. Noubani left behind a wife, three young children and ailing parents. His family was not only deeply hurt by the gruesome murder, but was also disgraced by pamphlets issued by the Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, which claimed that Noubani was a "traitor." However, the assailants later issued another leaflet clearing Noubani of the charges. The victim's children have since refused to go to school for fear of being sneered by their peers. The family is refusing to bury the body in an attempt to put pressure on the PA to take action against the culprits. "We believe it is very important that the accusation of collaboration and torture of Noubani is investigated thoroughly so that his name is cleared," the human rights group added. It pointed out that 99 suspected "collaborators" have been murdered since the beginning of the intifada more than four years ago. Another 200 Palestinians were killed by various armed groups for crime-related reasons. "We urgently call upon the PA and especially upon Mr. [Mahmoud] Abbas as the newly elected president to pay serious attention to the internal chaos and killings of Palestinians by their own brothers and in particular to this specific case," the group said. "Torture should be prevented at all times and it is essential that cases of torture are investigated in depth and that perpetrators are punished accordingly. The PA must put a halt to torture and killings of suspected collaborators within Palestinian society. "We urge the PA to investigate the horrible death of Noubani and to adhere to the rule of law. What makes this case even more inhuman and tragic was that the victim was suffering from a mental disorder and was therefore unable to completely defend himself against allegations of collaboration with Israel." jpost.com

To: Neocon who wrote (157221)	1/28/2005 9:38:54 AM
From: GST	Respond to of 281500

Arabs Say Iraq Vote Gives Democracy a Bad Name 43 minutes ago World - Reuters By Tom Perry CAIRO (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) sees Sunday's election in Iraq (news - web sites) as a beacon for freedom in the Middle East, but Arab reformers say the poll will set back their cause. Arab human rights activists say the Iraqi election is deeply flawed and will give democracy a bad name. They say violence and the prospect of a Sunni Arab boycott will undermine the poll. Many Arabs, already suspicious of U.S. intentions in Iraq, are also dismissing the vote's credibility because of the presence of the 150,000 U.S. troops there. "The influence of the elections for us as democrats is disastrous," Syrian human rights activist Haytham Manna told Reuters from Paris. "When you marginalize wide sections of society from the political process ... this is not democracy." "With this example, all the Arab extremists will say to us: 'You democrats, go to hell, because you haven't been able to solve our problems with your democracy and elections'," said Manna, who left Syria in 1978 as a political exile. Some Iraqi Sunni Arab groups are boycotting the election, saying it cannot be free and fair because of the U.S. military presence and daily bloodshed in Sunni heartlands. The prospect that majority Shi'ites and minority Kurds will dominate Iraq's first parliamentary election since Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) fell in April 2003 has fueled fears of communal strife. "If the U.S. really sees the Iraqi elections as a step to usher in democracy, Arabs don't need it because it would be a leap into more bloodshed and chaos," said Mokhtar Trifi, head of Tunisia's only independent human rights group. Many Arabs think elections held under U.S. occupation can only produce a government similar to the U.S.-backed interim government, which they view as an American puppet. DEMOCRATIC CHARADES "The elections depict democracy as if it is connected to the idea of submission to the American occupier," said Abdel Halim Qandil, who is campaigning against an extension of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak (news - web sites)'s 23-year-old rule. "The idea of democracy will lose its reputation in the Arab world entirely," Qandil said, comparing the Iraqi election with 20th-century polls held in Egypt under British occupation. "Democratic charades of this type were going on then," he said. Some Arab dissidents also say violence in Iraq has given Arab governments an excuse to deflect pressure from the Bush administration for democratic reform across the Middle East. Egyptian civil rights activist Saadeddin Ibrahim said the chaos in Iraq had allowed the Egypt government to discredit the U.S. project at home. Cairo was also warning Washington that political reform in Egypt might unleash extremism. Rights campaigners say U.S. abuse of Iraqi detainees at the Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad had also put back the cause of human rights in Arab states accused of torturing prisoners. Manaa, spokesman for the Arab Commission for Human Rights, said cases of torture in Arab jails had increased since the Abu Ghraib scandal. U.S. soldiers involved have faced court martial. "Arab governments say: 'This is the reform carried out by the one who calls on us to reform,"' Manaa said. Saudi academic Madawi al-Rasheed said the Abu Ghraib scandal coupled with air strikes on Falluja, which the U.S. military said was a stronghold for Sunni insurgents, had lost America the support of its natural Arab allies in pushing for democracy. "The educated, liberal classes, they cannot possibly have positive views vis-a-vis America when these things are going on," she told Reuters from London. But Rasheed said if democracy did take root in Iraq it would be an example to other Arabs, a view echoed by Shafiq Ghabra, president of the American University of Kuwait. "Today there are few places in the Arab world where you can have this dynamic expression of ideas, lists, candidates," he said. (Additional reporting by Lamine Ghanmi in Tunis and Noora Kassem in Kuwait) news.yahoo.com