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Pastimes : Investment Chat Board Lawsuits -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Janice Shell who wrote (7064)	1/27/2005 7:02:24 PM
From: Bill Ulrich	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12465

re: "The fact that some piece of information is posted on an investment website does not necessarily make it public... >> I think that's absurd." Not so absurd. This month, a Mac info site published on the web details of new products that were certainly not yet released by Apple and not public info. Apple is suing them right now for breach of trade secrets. Whether the suit has merit is not my point, rather that info on the web can sometimes be not-public-info. If you were a lucky reader of that and made an investment decision, you've made a good profit on that now, as the news was released during MacWorld. Just keep it a secret. <g> "And where does it leave an investor who does his own research but doesn't post on any investment websites?" Well hidden? Or, a closed mouth gathers no foot?

To: Janice Shell who wrote (7064)	1/27/2005 7:08:58 PM
From: Pluvia	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 12465

>>And where does it leave an investor who does his own research but doesn't post on any investment websites? i started ranting for a minute there too, but continue reading.... i think they've carved out a safe harbor for us. the way i read it, if you're publishing info that's honest, (ie not fraudulent), you're ok... the "manipulation" definition essentially says the same thing... unless it's fraudulent, it's not considered manipulation... the grey-est area seems to be publishing non-public info, (public info, not disseminated), knowing that it's material and will affect the market... while you're short... does this violate this: "The essential element of manipulation is the deception of investors into believing that prices at which they purchase and sell securities are determined by the natural interplay of supply and demand." ?? here's the quote re: trading on non-public info: ************************* "There is no general prohibition against trading on material, non-public information, and no general duty for an investor with such information to disclose it. However, when such information is obtained in violation of a duty of trust and confidence, an investor with such information is obligated, under the law, to either disclose the information to make it public, or to abstain from trading." ************************* here's the excerpt from manipulation : "In the case of market manipulation, the first element -- the device, scheme, or artifice to defraud -- that the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt is as follows. The government must prove the defendant you are considering, alone or with one or more persons, engaged in manipulative conduct. The term “manipulative” as used in the securities laws connotes conduct that is intentional or willful and is designed to deceive or defraud investors by controlling or artificially affecting the price of securities. Such manipulative conduct distorts legitimate investors’ perceptions of real market conditions because, when investors and prospective investors see trading activity in a security, they are entitled to assume that the prices that they pay and receive are determined by the unimpeded interaction of real supply and real demand. In other words, investors are entitled to assume that the prices and trading volume of securities reflect collective marketplace judgments about the value of those securities. Manipulative conduct frustrates investors’ expectations. The essential element of manipulation is the deception of investors into believing that prices at which they purchase and sell securities are determined by the natural interplay of supply and demand."