Interview With Saudi Arabia's Prince Walid Ibn Talal
'We Too Are Victims of Terrorism'
By Der Spiegel
The interview was conducted by editors Gerhard Spörl and Bernhard Zand in Paris.
SPIEGEL: Your Highness, 2004 was a year of very high oil prices that filled the coffers of Arab states. Where does this money actually go?
Prince Walid: Last year Saudi Arabia earned almost $33 billion more than expected. The government set aside a large share of the money, investing about $8 billion and using the rest to pay off its debts. Private investors are even more conservative and prefer to put their money in the bank -- mainly in Europe, and to a somewhat lesser extent in the United States. Arabs are hardly investing any of their money these days, and if they do, it's in the real estate market.
SPIEGEL: Why?
Prince Walid: This is an unexpected trend. Last fall, for example, the government of Abu Dhabi was interested in acquiring a stake in Volkswagen, but then the deal fell apart. Right now many Arabs prefer to keep their assets liquid. The investments I propose are usually projects in the Middle East. I myself certainly invest in Europe and the United States, but I'm the exception.
SPIEGEL: What do you, personally, feel is the most attractive place to invest today? Are you tempted by the strong euro?
Prince Walid: Through my holdings in the United States, Canada and Europe, I invest indirectly in more than 120 countries. Because of this global presence, my company operates on a dollar basis. I am not interested in currency speculation. But I do expect the international financial situation to improve. Who knows, perhaps 2005 will be the year when Japan sails out of its slump, and perhaps Germany will also get back on its feet. The markets in the Middle East are definitely trending upward these days. That's where I invested most of my money in the past year.
SPIEGEL: The US deficit for the next ten years is estimated at $855 billion, a figure that does not include military expenditures in Afghanistan and Iraq. Are you worried about this? After all, you are the biggest foreign investor in the United States.
Prince Walid: America's problem is not just its budget deficit, but also its enormous trade deficit. No country on earth can afford such an imbalance forever, not even the United States, with its strong economy. Of course, as a major investor I am interested in a stable US economy and a budget deficit that remains within reason.
SPIEGEL: Before September 11, more than $600 billion in Saudi capital was tied up in the United States. What have been the economic consequences of the political cooling off between Washington and Riyadh?
Prince Walid: Of course, such a gruesome and epochal event such as September 11 has consequences in all areas -- it goes beyond economic affairs, and even beyond the relationship between America and Saudi Arabia. September 11 changed the West's relationship to the Arab world, and it opened a rift between Islam on the one side and Christianity and Judaism on the other. This has created a feeling of uncertainty among some Saudis, and they've withdrawn some of their capital from of the USA. I do exactly the opposite: I'm expanding my investments in America.
"..such a gruesome and
epochal event such as
September 11 has
consequences in all areas --
it goes beyond economic
affairs, and even beyond the
relationship between
America and Saudi Arabia.
September 11 changed the
West's relationship to the
Arab world, and it opened
a rift between Islam on the
one side and Christianity
and Judaism on the other.."
SPIEGEL: The Saudi royal family's reputation in the United States has suffered considerably. Not only have you been accused of being lax on terrorism, but also of having a compromisingly close relationship to the Bush family.
Prince Walid: The Saudi royal family has always had good relations with US administrations; this applies to Jimmy Carter as much as it does to Ronald Reagan. Perhaps we do get along even better with the two Presidents Bush than with their predecessors, but that shouldn't be interpreted politically. Saudi Arabia gets along well with whomever America elects to be its president, whether he is a Republican or a Democrat.
SPIEGEL: How you feel about the civil suits against Saudi businessmen pending in US courts? Will they succeed?
Prince Walid: An American federal judge threw out most of those cases two weeks ago. Notwithstanding his ruling, while it is true that 15 of the 19 attackers on September 11 were from Saudi Arabia, one cannot hold the Saudi government or the entire Saudi people liable for their actions. We too are victims of terrorism. We have attacks almost every week. There are people in Saudi Arabia who support Osama bin Laden, but we are fighting them and we will win.
"..We too are victims
of terrorism. We have
attacks almost every
week.."
SPIEGEL: Were you surprised that so many of the September 11 attackers were Saudis?
Prince Walid: I was surprised and I was shocked.
SPIEGEL: Have you ever met Bin Laden?
Prince Walid: No, I've never met him.
SPIEGEL: You attended universities in California and New York. Being pro-American, it must be difficult for you to cope with the political and psychological estrangement between the United States and Saudi Arabia.
Prince Walid: Yes, but look at Germany, for instance. After World War II, it took years for the French, British and Germans to reconcile. Today they are allies. Such healing processes need time, and this also applies to Saudi Arabia and the United States. We all have the obligation to build bridges over the gulf that was formed by September 11. I'm trying to do it in my way, by establishing centers for American studies, one in Beirut and one in Cairo, as well as corresponding institutes for Islamic studies in Great Britain and the United States.
"..We all have the
obligation to build
bridges over the
gulf that was formed
by September 11.."
SPIEGEL: Prince Walid, a mediator in the battle of the civilizations?
Prince Walid: I see myself as a philanthropist, as a politician and as a member of the Saudi royal family. God has blessed me with great wealth, but this comes with obligations. Those who build bridges must be capable of seeing the big picture, and if I am needed as a businessman, I can also help out financially.
SPIEGEL: As a businessman, you are known for taking over ailing companies and waiting patiently, sometimes even decades, until they turn a profit. Have you recently considered investing in Iraq?
Prince Walid: No. Iraq is too unstable and unpredictable. You cannot invest in a country threatened by civil war, where bombs are exploding every day. I can save ailing companies, but not an ailing nation. Iraq is consumed by a conflict involving the United States, al-Qaida, the Kurds, the Sunnis and the Shiites. All of this goes well beyond my control. Iraq is a quagmire.
SPIEGEL: Do you think the elections will improve the situation?
Prince Walid: I hope so. But I don't see an end in sight. Iraq has been a hotbed of unrest for 1,500 years. America has chosen the most difficult of all Arab countries and has opened a Pandora's Box.
SPIEGEL: How can Saudi Arabia contribute to stability in Iraq?
Prince Walid: We share an almost 800-kilometer (500 miles) common border and have a very strong interest in a stable Iraq. This is one of the reasons why we expressly advised Washington against disbanding Saddam's army. Perhaps we will see things more clearly in 20 or 30 years, but it's already obvious today that disbanding the Iraqi military was a big mistake and played a large part in the country's destabilization. And it's not just the Iraqi population that suffers from the situation there; it also affects Iraq's neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. I am not optimistic.
SPIEGEL: Your government was a strong supporter of elections in Iraq, but in Saudi Arabia itself there is little evidence of democratic reform.
Prince Walid: Saudi Arabia is a traditional monarchy with a rather homogeneous society, both religiously and ethnically. You can't compare this with Iraq. As muddled as the situation in Baghdad is, elections could be a way out -- by no means a guaranteed but certainly a potential way out.
SPIEGEL: But democracy is not limited to ethnically inhomogeneous countries.
Prince Walid: Attempting to implant western models of democracy into the Middle East is a tricky strategy. I am a strong supporter of freedom of _expression and of the press, but I doubt that the German or the American model could be applied in Saudi Arabia. Look at countries like Singapore and China: Are they what Washington would call democracies? Is America trying to change their political systems?
"..Attempting to
implant western
models of democracy
into the Middle East
is a tricky strategy.
I am a strong supporter
of freedom of _expression
and of the press, but I
doubt that the German
or the American model
could be applied in Saudi
Arabia. Look at countries
like Singapore and China:
Are they what Washington
would call democracies?
Is America trying to
change their political
systems? ..Give us time
to experiment.."
SPIEGEL: China is changing rapidly.
Prince Walid: So is Saudi Arabia, but at a different pace. We have just increased the powers of the Majlis Al-Shura, our consultative council. It can now influence the budget and block government decisions. It isn't official yet, but I assume that we will hold a national election for this council within the next five years.
SPIEGEL: For now, half of Saudi Arabia's municipal councils are to be elected, but women are still not permitted to run for office or vote.
Prince Walid: That too will change. You may say that it's taking too long, but I say: better late than never. We are a very conservative society. Since the municipal elections were announced, only five to seven percent of eligible voters have actually registered. There is undoubtedly a great deal of apathy in our society. People learn new ways very slowly. I am pleased that we are beginning with elections at the local level. If it turns out that mistakes were made or voter turnout is too low, at least we will have enough time to improve things. Give us time to experiment.
SPIEGEL: Saudi Arabia is an odd mixture of tradition and modernity. Doesn't this discrepancy make it even more difficult to reform the country?
Prince Walid: Like most Saudi Arabians, I myself am a practicing, traditional Muslim, and yet I have liberal views. I believe that women should of course be allowed to drive cars, and that they should generally have all rights that men have. If you visit the hotel I own in Paris, you'll find two verses of the Koran displayed in the lobby, right next to the bar, where we serve alcohol. I am the biggest shareholder in Citigroup, the world's largest bank. Who do you think is the president of Citigroup? He's a Jew. Many of my friends and business associates are Christians and Jews. Traditionalism and liberalism are not mutually exclusive. But we must be cautious and show respect for all religions.
SPIEGEL: One of the Koran verses displayed in the lobby reads: "Thank God for your riches, and He will reward you with even more." From your perspective, is this the approach to saving the Arab world: Create affluence and only then risk granting more democracy?
Prince Walid: Capitalism and Islam fit together very well. Islam encourages the faithful to engage in trade and earn money. There is no contradiction here. Contradictions only come from those who insist on shouting and yelling. But these people are against everything. In fact, ultimately they're against themselves. We must not allow them to come to power. I do not shout and yell. I rely on reason.
SPIEGEL: Your Highness, thank you for this interview.
Translated from the German by Christopher Sultan
[This interview appeared in the New York Times on January 31, 2005. It is reprinted here with permission.] |
