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Politics : A US National Health Care System? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (447)	2/3/2005 10:22:07 AM
From: fresc	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 42652

Great post! You keep posting positive things about Canada you are going to be banned from this site from The Mighty LAZ! Once again, nice to have you on board. Cheers

To: zonder who wrote (447)	2/3/2005 11:41:40 AM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 42652

Lower taxes in and of themselves do equal more freedom... higher taxes decrease freedom when considered in isolation I see. That was not clear to me in your previous posts, especially since it looked here like you were saying Americans are freer than Canadians because they have lower tax rates: The two ideas are very compatible. Lower taxes increase freedom when considered in isolation. The US has lower taxes then Canada. That would make the US more free unless Canada is more free in other ways. In general I don't think Canada has any significant advantage over the US in terms of freedom but I'm willing to listen to arguments saying otherwise. So, would that mean that Canadians could actually be living freer lives than their US counterparts, even if they pay higher taxes? They could be. I don't think they are but it is possible. (1) Canadians can smoke marijuana for personal pleasure or to alleviate pains and aches. Are Americans free to do so? Marijuana is legal in Canada even for non-medical reasons? If true that would surprise me and would be one specific example where Canadians are more free but its hardly enough to hang the whole argument on. (2) Homosexual Canadians can legally marry each other, as the state recognizes their equality with heterosexual persons. Are homosexual Americans as free? This is not an issue of freedom. I've stated why on this thread and a few others. It's off topic on this thread. If you want we can talk about it on another thread or in PM, or maybe I can track down and PM you some posts where I made the argument. I know it was made on the "Formerly AMD thread", and possibly on the "Politics for Pros" thread and "The Castle" (3) Canadian citizens or other legal residents cannot be locked up by the state and forgotten about for years on end, with no formal accusation nor rights to challenge that accusation in a court of law. Are Americans as as secure from wrongful imprisonment? American citizens are also entitled to a trial. There was some effort by the government to get around this but it was struck down. This can be suspended but only by an act of congress which has not been made. I could respond with ways Canada is less free then the US, but this really isn't about comparing freedom in the two countries. Both countries are pretty free. This thread is about health care. Higher taxes to support government provided health care, and a greater degree of regulation on health care insurance (such as forbidding private medical insurance except in areas not covered by the government) reduce freedom. It can be argued that such efforts provide benefits that are greater then the loss of freedom involved. If someone wants to argue that fine, but they shouldn't pretend that no loss of freedom is involved. This whole digression in to comparing the relative level of freedom between Canada and the US is irrelevant to the point and is really off topic to the thread. Even if Canada really is freer then the US (and I don't think it is), its health care system reduces freedom in Canada. In theory it might reduce it to a level that is still greater then that which Americans face but even if that is true it still is a reduction. If the US is less free than Canada and added such a system then the difference would increase. Tim