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To: Clappy who wrote (40828)	2/3/2005 8:59:43 AM
From: altair19	Respond to of 104197

Clapper, <Anyone know much about it?> A little. Couple of thoughts - for folks who have 401K's....remember how well they did in the 90's and then how they did from 2001 on? - the average person lost between 60% to 80% of the value put in for a 15 year period. The 401k is a form of capital accumulation just like a pension but is entirely subject to the market. During that same period of time SS indexed to inflation paid out steadily and didn't swing with the market. Privatising part of SS will have the same effect as the 401k has had. It will have a far heavier impact on middle and low income people who are totally dependent on it - they will be more at risk. High income people will have it as a supplement to their income (as they have SS today). When Bush ran for governor of Texas he pushed hard on the point that SS would be bankrupt by 1988 (no one yet has called him on that. I think there is a long term problem with SS being able to honor every current and future promise. They are driving a political solution now - at least half the voters in the US are satisfied with half information or totally inaccurate information coming from Bush. This SS problem needs some very smart people to figure it out and work through some alternatives. The good news is the Demos have drawn a line in the sand and the Repulicans are afraid it will be a mess before the next elections. If I had the job (President).....I would give graduated tax relief to incent savings (greater relief at the lower income levels. And I would make it significant enough to get peoples attention. Right now there is so much individual debt it is scary - "saving for a rainy day" is an obsolete idea...it needs to be regenerated. And..I would also increase employer's tax relief if they contribute (match) significantly more to their employees 401k's. I would make IRA's more attractive with larger tax incentive. And....for the folks at the bottom of the rung who are working their way up...I would have a pure Social Security plan. The theory is that as you make more money, offer more alternatives for tax relief and retirement savings. The problem needs to be approached from many dimensions - it's not a simple problem that can be "sloganed" to a solution. Each income cohort has to have tailored financial tax and retirement incentives and options. The basic philosophy is as follows: - You don't make much money, we'll give you a hand with social security - You begin making money and you're in the middle you'll have some incentives that you can take advantage of plus some social security. - You make a lot of money, you can pay your own way with some incentives. And how would I pay for all this? I can save roughly $80 billion a year getting out of Iraq, and roll back the tax cuts. That's enough to get the pump primed and get started with the work. It shouldn't take longer than a year to figure a plan out, show it to the American people and have them vote on it. Altair19 ps. in a hurry didn't check any of this....

To: Clappy who wrote (40828)	2/3/2005 12:09:18 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 104197

They are fucking with us. They want our money for themselves. They can't get it under social security; people get to keep their own. Therefore, give it back to the people so then we can get our hands on it instead of the government. This ain't about our benefit, nor our kids. It's about Wall Street. We are supposed to be a little more financially knowledgeable than most people out there. My IRA still hasn't come back to where it was 5 years ago. If we don't get it, how will the rest figure it out? Rat From Soupy's thread. Message 21011980