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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (158026)	2/13/2005 7:36:40 AM
From: redfish	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I doubt the U.S. gave Israel much choice in the matter re Gulf War I. And at any rate given the way we were pounding Saddam's forces, a reprisal from Israel wouldn't have made much of a difference. Israel is always described an an important ally of the U.S. but when you compare it to our other important allies, their contribution to our security doesn't seem like much. Of course to some people questioning the value of our relationship with Israel is, in and of itself, anti-Semitism ... but I don't see how the U.S. can operate under that assumption, as we will in effect have surrended our sovereignty on any issues related to the middle east. Of course the cow is already out of the barn on that issue, the U.S. and Israel are joined at the hip, so as a practical matter it is strictly theoretical (i.e., could we at some point in the past altered our policies so that we did not become joined at the hip).

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (158026)	2/13/2005 10:53:42 AM
From: neolib	Respond to of 281500

This is preposterous. Please name the US war since 1948 where overt Israeli help would even have been permitted! Vietnam comes to mind. More to the point, Israeli arms suppliers have had a long history of being willing to sell against US interests. China being an example.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (158026)	2/15/2005 1:05:11 AM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Nadine; Re: "This is preposterous. Please name the US war since 1948 where overt Israeli help would even have been permitted!" Vietnam. Korea. Re: "When it comes to logistical help, covert help, and political cooperation, Israel has been a firm ally in every US Middle East venture." Israel has given us essentially zero logistical help. As far as covert help, there is some evidence that Israel taught our kids how to torture Arabs, but the result was not good for us. As far as being an ally, Israeli soldiers have not fought on our side in either our Kuwait or Iraqi adventures. On the contrary, Arab soldiers did fight on our side in Kuwait, and Kuwait provided significant logistical assistance against Iraq. Re: "Do you think it was Israel's idea to take scuds from Saddam without even a response?" (a) Again, Israel chose a path that was beneficial to Israel. Sometimes these paths are beneficial to the US, sometimes not. (b) The total number of Israeli citizens killed by Scuds was quite small, even compared to the very small numbers killed by suicide bombers. (c) As far as allies goes, the US needs countries that can fight, not countries that make great targets. Re: "Do you seriously think that Israel was invited to join the Coalition in 1991 or 2003, but declined?" You've quite accurately described the problem. The US needs large allies that can help it in a fight, not tiny pariah states whose cooperation would ruin alliances with large countries. -- Carl