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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: yard_man who wrote (37942)2/21/2005 10:24:09 PM
From: PartyTime  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 173976
 
Live and let live!



To: yard_man who wrote (37942)2/21/2005 11:01:37 PM
From: Orcastraiter  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 173976
 
I think you oversimplify the issue. I view homosexuality as loathsome, just from what I know about nature and because I know it is displeasing to God.

In nature there are all kinds of examples of homosexuality. As for God being displeased by it...I'll defer to you, as I have not spoken to God about it.

I don't loathe homosexuals. I also don't loathe liars or thieves.

I see you only loath the sex acts...not the people involved.

The issue boils down to 1) whether or not the state should promote or discourage certain behavior and 2) whether or not special rights that have been afforded others -- whether such special rights should be afforded homosexuals.

When there are no victims, I don't think the state needs to get involved. Oral sex used to be banned in most states...even between married hetrosexual couples. Personally if people want to do that then I think the government should butt out.

re 1) For years homosexuality, the practice of sodomy, was believe to be abhorent and laws precluded it. So the idea that the behavior is OK -- whether you base it on statistics or whatever you base it on -- is a relatively new.

No, the idea that it is ok has never set well with many hetrosexual folks, but homosexual activity has gone on since the beginning of time in every religion and every culture. In some cultures it was accepted.

Statistically speaking there are a number of people who commit incest or engage in other forms of deviant behavior. Such behaviors are thought to be abhorrent, even is the people involved are old enough to be engaging in something that is consensual. So the idea that a certain number participate in an activity or that it is consensual does not make it right.

I have never heard of cases of consensual incest. I'm sure it happens though. And if it is not consensual or involves a minor, then there are laws that govern that. Basically if there is a victim involved, then it's illegal.

re 2) From a strictly libertarian POV I would make a number of observations. First, married people (I mean heterosexuals or what I call those who choose normal sexual functions based on the ability to procreate) shouldn't be treated as a special class of people. Why should the state favor a married person over a single person in any matter as relates to the law -- especially tax law or rules concerning inheritance!! The state, in its legitimate capacity, has no interest in preferring someone being single over someone being married.

I agree with your point. But until it makes no difference whether you're married or single, denying homosexuals from those rights is discrimination.

Homosexuals are seeking 2 things it appears to me. Someone to give them a stamp of "legitimacy" for the lifestyle that they have chosen and someone who will advocate or promulgate their lifestyle.

I disagree. Homosexuals are looking for the same rights as hetrosexuals with regard to marriage. They are not looking for validation of a chosen lifestyle. Most homosexuals don't choose the lifestyle. What kind of idiot would choose to be discriminated against by most of the world? Who'd want to be a miserable faggot? I don't buy that one at all. You'd have to be born with the desire for the same sex to want that. If I was born into a homosexual world where most people were homosexual...I'd have to be the deviant...because I prefer the opposite sex...and there is no way that is going to change.

Again, the state has no legitimate interest in this or preferring that a person marry or not marry. The other thing that homosexuals are seeking is expansion of regulations that already exist concerning normal marriage partners, that favor these over single persons.

For a long time there was a marriage penalty with regard to taxes. I agree with you that taxes is an indivual thing. Others would argue that if one spouse works and the other supports them by keeping the household then they should share that income between the two of them for tax purposes. The taxation thing has changed over the years and will likely change in the future too...that's politics as usual.

I would contend that folks should have the right to bequeath property and not be subject to taxation on it period. As to whether or not companies provide insurance or other perks to those who have chosen any free assocation with -- or a relation to an employee -- this should be strictly up to the employer.

I agree wholeheartedly. But if an employer decided to compensate their employees by providing benefits to spouses, they should extend those benefits to all married couples...even gay ones.

I am not a homophobe. I just regard it as wrong. Doesn't mean I haven't done wrong or that I hate them as a class of people.

I'm not a homophobe either. I don't know if it's wrong or not. I just know that it's not my cup of tea. And being a libertarian minded guy, I don't think it's the goverments business to tell people who they can love or marry. It's not about procreation. Lots of heterosexual couples cannot procreate. It should be about people deciding to be together in life. It's their choice...not mine to make, nor is it the governments to regulate either IMHO.

Orca