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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: DuckTapeSunroof who wrote (673640)3/1/2005 10:07:14 AM
From: Johannes Pilch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769670
 
Can't edit, must just slam it out and hope for the best - sorry.

So you are describing yourself as a 'leftist' now??????? :)

Obviously not.

Why?????

The proposals coming out of Washington are virtually all big government proposals, providing services to sectors of the public that ought to be provided privately. Even those who call themselves small government conservatives generally submit such proposals, due to a flawed notion of pragmatism. Of course this means whenever a proposal is passed by conservatives, it is almost certain to be a big government proposal. The opposing conservative views in Washington are not “big government” vs “small government.” It's “big government” vs “even bigger government”. The very philosophy beneath American government has shifted such that “The Government Program” is automatically viewed as the solution to our nation’s ills. Bush’s social security plan is just a very slight modification of an “even bigger government program.” His “no child left behind” act is just one of a very long list of modifications to “even bigger government” programs. His prescription drug program – big government. America’s restrictions on drugs, whether Crystal Meth, cocaine, crack or medicines from Canada – big government. Education – big government. Land ownership – big government. Farm subsidies – big government. EPA – big government. The constant push, even from some so-called “conservatives,” to get involved in foreign treaties, including Kyoto, federalized abortion, federalized sodomite marriage and federalized civil unions are all philosophically supported by fundamentally big government philosophy.

If the split between big government and small government “conservatives” were even, as you say, there would be a prominent civil war going on in Washington because small government conservatives simply would not even debate the big government conservatives on the current terms. They would promote what they believe – a thing we just don’t see to anywhere near the degree we see from big government conservatives. So I don’t think the split is even at all. I think what we actually have is a bunch of big government Americans who claim they stand for human freedom, but who are so willing to compromise their principles on what they think are small matters they have simply become worthless leftists. This is true of most conservatives, most liberals and the vast majority of libertarians in the worthless Libertarian Party.

(PS --- I notice you railing against *just one* federal department, the Education Department…

I only used it here because it is one of the big government programs that even many so-called “conservatives” automatically think are part of the American Way.

still, as federal bureaucracies go, it's hardly the most bloated in an absolute sense, nor in the amount of pork it shovels out.

But, of course, as you libertarians constantly focus on how much money a federal bureaucracy consumes, you fail to focus at least as much on how anti-freedom and personally invasive the bureaucracy is. The Department of Education is amongst the more anti-freedom of the bureaucracies, right up there with the IRS. As all real conservatives know, the amount of money spent by a federal organ is not the only issue of importance.

I find that is symptomatic of many practicing fiscal liberals [who preach 'fiscal conservatism']... they start criticizing federal spending W-A-Y D-O-W-N the list, while ignoring the big ticket items.

The matter is more complex than mere money. Money is critical, but not more critical than freedom. The size and invasiveness of government are critical issues, the latter more than the former.

Either way: the spending always goes up, and the size of the federal bureaucracy always increases, because the new spending always outweighs whatever measly cuts are enacted.....)

And none of this would change in the least should the Libertarians ever gain real power. They consist of the same ol’ dweebs we see in the GOP and the Democrat parties.

Most pols (of any stripe) have no great desire to do more then *preach* about small government and fiscal parsimony.

I think the truth is, most pols are trying to keep their jobs. They are just doing what the public expects them to do. Were a pol to really push for freedom, he would be out on his ear at the next election. The banana republic of Washington State would even call a recount to take him out before his term ends.

Incumbents prefer to shovel-out government favors for their constituents, for their 'base'... at least, as long as the markets and the economy will allow them to persist in such short-sighted foolishness.

They are just playing by the rules. Bush is doing likewise. I can’t really fault him or any of these folks. The problem is not with Washington. It is with folks who call themselves “liberals”, “Libertarian” and “conservative” but who in reality are just rank leftists.

There won't be any 'wars' over brain-dead deficit spending until the debt markets raise the cost of additional debt, until debt servicing costs soar, and the public demands change.

Please. You are most correct here. But please try to think this through. With current debt (personal and public) as it is, think of the implications. With soaring debt service costs, the public will demand a change indeed, but considering the current moral culture, tell me what change you think they will demand. This underscores our real problem.

'Something for nothing' is ALWAYS popular, 'free lunches' are ALWAYS the main dish for incumbents in Washington --- until the crunch comes.

Washington ain’t the problem. Leftism is now an American institution. Politicians come from the leftist populace and go into Washington to practice the Leftist American Way. We are not, contrary to popular belief, in a conservative spell. We are firmly entrenched in leftism.

As far as the other policy split amongst 'conservatives', the Authoritarian / Libertarian divide... it has been with us since the very founding of our Republic (just re-read some of the Hamilton / Jefferson debates), so I see no reason for it to ever go away, nor to ever be resolved in favor of either side.

No. I think you mischaracterize the debate here. Both Hamilton and Jefferson were philosophical libertarians. Both aspired for the greatest amount of individual liberty possible. Their conflict concerned the means to this liberty. In a nutshell, Jefferson thought government power was an automatic destroyer of liberty. Hamilton thought that too little government power could also be a destroyer of liberty. Philosophically, Hamilton was wrong. Practically, Jefferson was wrong. The two were correct for the reason their opponent was wrong. The issue was never fundamentally resolved because, perhaps largely for personal reasons, neither man was able to see the essential perspective of the other.

Something altogether different is going on today. Individual liberty is not even the issue of debate. We actually wave flags and call ourselves “free” while the government takes our property to give it to those who it thinks promise more jobs for others. We are focused only on providing money to various whining sectors of the public. The politician who credibly promises the most money wins the electoral pot. The rest of us simply take it for granted that if you live in the States, you have an obligation to pay for promised re-distribution of wealth and that the state has a right to force our support at the tip of a gun. Hamilton would not have agreed with the philosophical shift that has taken place today.

Short of America falling into a 100% Totalitarian nightmare, or a 'Libertarian paradise' of limited government and individual responsibilities... neither of which seems the main chance.

As far as I am concerned, none of this matters at all. Pragmatism allows us to more efficiently endure present undesirable and temporary circumstances; but it should never be an excuse to lay aside our vision simply because we think others too myopic to ever see what we see.

LOL!!!!! All I can say is, 'vultures' gotta eat too!

Of course, but that is not the issue here. The issue is that you are what you eat.