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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elroy who wrote (222778)	3/8/2005 4:39:43 AM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572643

So the conclusion is regardless of what is going on in some country, other countries should never use force to stop it unless they themselves are threatened. And the implication of that is that if the rulers of some country are routinely raping the adolescent female population of some minority group in their country, you would not go save those minority girls. You can't have it both ways - sometimes you've either got to fight, or let the bad guys be bad. Whose wanting it both ways? I say no period. To answer your question..........I don't like it at all when the 20% oppress the 80%. I didn't ask if you like it. I asked if you would go in and forcibly stop those 20% from their oppressive acts or not. Would you ever stop them IN ANY SITUATION where you aren't directly threatened? No.........for the second or third time. Your relatively immoral conclusion seems to be that using force is OK if YOU are threatened (you actually haven't even said this), but using force is NOT ok if OTHERS are threatened. Exactly right. I believe in a nation's sovereignty and international law. And I also believe that each nation has its own manifest destiny. Because I firmly believe there are good reasons for international law and it should be respected. I also believe there are good reasons for respecting the sovereignty of every nation. Why do you think that respecting "international law" (whatever that is) and respecting "sovereignity of nations" are more important than fighting for the rights of oppressed people to be free from persecution at the hands of people more powerful than them that happen to be citizens of the same country, which is not your country? Because I think people should fight for their own rights. Why is national sovereignity more important than stopping those armed government militia in Darfur from raping village girls? Because I don't believe an invading army would make it right. I don't believe any one country on this planet is imbued with the necessary talents to make it work out properly. In truth, this invasion of Iraq is a disaster. Some people are excited because there was an election but in reality, the place is a mess. And it comes down to our own shortcomings. Its because we are not that great at invading another country and setting things right. No one is. I know you don't agree with that notion.........but its how it looks to me. I see only a slight improvement in the lives of the Iraqis........and that's tenuous at best. ted

To: Elroy who wrote (222778)	3/8/2005 6:20:09 AM
From: Road Walker	Respond to of 1572643

re: And the implication of that is that if the rulers of some country are routinely raping the adolescent female population of some minority group in their country, you would not go save those minority girls. So are you going to enlist to go to the Congo? Rights group reveals Congo rape horror A leading human rights group says Government soldiers and rebels have raped tens of thousands of women and children in eastern Congo and are going unpunished as conflict simmers in the lawless region. Human Rights Watch (HRW) says fighters on all sides of Congo's war have raped civilians on a massive scale since the conflict broke out in 1998, but only a handful have ever been tried. "Sexual violence has shattered tens of thousands of lives in Congo, but fewer than a dozen victims have seen their assailants prosecuted," Alison Des Forges, senior advisor to HRW's Africa division, said in a report. Sheltering in a refugee camp protected by United Nations peacekeepers with tanks and machine guns, Therese Yeda, 32, described how a militia group gang raped her last week as she walked between two villages. "One was at the checkpoint and the others were hiding in the bushes before they jumped out and pointed their weapons at me," she said. The people she was with ran away terrified but Yeda was unable to because of all the things she was carrying. "Ten of them had guns, the other two had machetes. All 12 of them raped me ... I am eight months pregnant but the baby doesn't seem to be moving any more," she said. Her five children were also beaten by the gunmen. An upsurge in clashes since January has displaced 70,000 civilians in Democratic Republic of Congo's remote north-eastern Ituri district, and reports of rape are frequent. Ethnic warfare has killed more than 50,000 people in Ituri since 1999. Children as young as eight have taken part in the most recent fighting, refugees say. Medecins San Frontieres says it has treated over 2,500 rape victims, from 4-months old to 80 years, at its hospital in the regional capital Bunia since June 2003. The group says the true number could be 50 times higher as victims are afraid to speak out. "We have been here for two years and we have not seen any improvement. It is so systematic - whenever there are attacks by armed groups, there is rape," said Patrick Barbier, head of the MSF mission in the region. "Sexual violence is so stigmatised. The victims don't come and seek medical care. It is not taken seriously by the authorities so there is complete impunity." Human Rights Watch said an increasing number of sexual abuse victims wanted justice, but said those rape trials that had taken place in Congo had fallen woefully short of international standards with support for victims virtually non-existent. The group said while the International Criminal Court may prosecute the occasional case, the vast majority would have to be tried in Congolese courts. One woman told HRW how she watched her 13-year old niece being raped by fighters loyal to renegade general Laurent Nkunda, who launched a short-lived rebellion in the eastern town of Bukavu last June. "Four men raped her. They had spread her arms and legs and held her down," the woman told HRW. "I had been with her but hid in a banana tree and watched what happened. Afterward she started to vomit blood. We brought her to hospital and she died two days later." -Reuters