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Politics : Don't Blame Me, I Voted For Kerry -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chas. who wrote (58940)	3/11/2005 9:11:03 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 81568

We have an interest in reforming the ME because the unreformed ME has been producing a lot of trouble for us - 911 and many other terror attacks, the Gulf War (which didn't end in 2001), before that the Iran-Iraq and Tanker wars, etc. We did not get involved in Iraq in 2003. We'd been there for 12 years - troops in SA and Kuwait, enforcing no fly zones, sanctions, having our planes shot at regularly, a target for terrorists.

To: Chas. who wrote (58940)	3/12/2005 4:49:38 AM
From: Chas.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81568

To Brumar...Brumar I know how long we have been dicking around in the ME, essentially since just before WWI. the reason, Geopolitics, Oil..... we have been there for close to 100 years... every 4 or 8 years our priority and style of involvement there changes with our new President and his administration, and that is at the crux of our difficulty in dealing with the Tribal families and Monarchies of the area. they see it as meddeling, we see it as protecting our oil interest's... with Jimmy Carter, Stansfield Turner... in the 1970's... things began taking a turn for the worse. continuing botched foreign policy in the ME for the next 30 years finally culminates in the 9-11 atrocity... now under Bush/Rumsfeld we continue to screw things up in the ME....we will effect a few feints towards a bastard form of Democracy but it will be superficial. the only true change in the ME will have to come from education and it will be a generational evolvment,way beyond my lifetime if at all. I suspect the eventual form of government in the ME will be as they have in Jordan, a benevolent, dynastic, Monarchy...it fits the mindset of the people. What we are faced with in the short term is countermeasuring the radical Islamic fundamentalist's that are so destructive to USA and themselves and their own.... I simply disagree with the methods and policies of how we should deal with these events and threats... I am for present and continuing massive covert action in the area, causing a permanent economic leverage over their Monarchs and masses.... Bush/Rumsfeld are amatures that have fugged up and are now trying to claim a victory in the name of bringing Democracy to the ME...a joke. and its all going to change again in a few years with another new President and administration..... Short term bottom line is Kill as many of the bad guys as possible, let the chips fall where they may. regards

To: Chas. who wrote (58940)	3/13/2005 7:27:52 PM
From: lorne	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81568

Chuck.....You said...."I say it is a lost cause and not worth 1 solitary American life fug em......use Airplanes, Missles, Smart Bombs, Economic measures, Black Ops, Spooks and highly paid, highly motivated Mercanaries as the situation warrants as the specific country warrants..........Us or Them...."..... Message 21124513 Agreed. Radical islam or us. Our way of life or theirs. IMO. one of the greatest weapons radical islam uses against us is what we have been taught and what we believe. Our inability to step out of the box temporarily and think and act like an islam terrorists is costing American and coalition forces lives. The USA is not using all the power available to them for fear of what the rest of the world will say. The islam terrorists know they can make the killings last for years and years because unlike them civilized people don't like to kill other human beings and will not stop them as they know we can. I agree...it's them or us.....and whatever force is required to rid planet Earth of radical islam ....Without the loss of American and coalition soldiers ...Civilized humans....should be used. In a hundred years will we all be islamic or will we still enjoy the freedoms we have to day?