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Politics : Bush Administration's Media Manipulation--MediaGate? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (1324)	3/16/2005 9:08:05 AM
From: Orcastraiter	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9838

You said you were a contributor to Amnesty International. AI opposes torture. The Bush administration has opened up avenues for adding torture to operations. Gonzales wrote legal opinions saying that torture was justifiable. It is neither justifiable, nor is it needed, nor is it useful. It appears that the use of torture is condoned, not only by Gonzales, but Rumsfeld and Bush. I understand that we have been subcontracting torture out to countries that have no rules regarding torture. When torture of innocents in captivity leads to death, this is a shameful act. I don't care what uniform the perpetrators are wearing...when it comes to torture it's wrong...and it violates the very foundation of the organization that you profess to support. As usual you add a red herring to the discussion. I have always supported the troops. Never have I denigrated the boys that do the hard work. I do have a bone to pick with the command structure though. They are not using our resources in the best way. That complaint falls directly on the CIC...not the troops. When you have trouble spots, you need to allocate resources to the spots where the trouble comes from. Saddam was not exporting terror. Did he need attention? Yes he did...but not an invasion. Does OBL need attention...yes he does...and he is let slip through the cracks. We needed to corral him...and we moved off point to Iraq. Trying to make the connection between my dislike for the direction that Bush has taken us into has absolutely nothing to do with the troops or their performance. Somehow, Bush blames individuals at Abu Ghraib for the torture. It's Bush that does not take responsibility. It's Bush that prosecutes these troops. Even though they have said under oath that they were following orders...that gets swept under the military court martial procedure carpet. Those soldiers have no voice...and they took the fall for a policy that was obviously one that came from the top. It's Bush that does not support the troops. Orca

To: Proud_Infidel who wrote (1324)	3/16/2005 3:50:04 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 9838

Brian, Re: yet nary a word on the heinous acts committed against the troops which could easily lead someone to take matters into their own hands, after seeing what they see. Some of us are old enough to have been alive during the Viet Nam atrocities. What we are witnessing in Iraq and Afghanistan today is very similar. Basically, the U.S. is a foreign invading imperial colonial force that has ZERO moral legitimacy and is loathed by the impacted populations. It is the mere presence of the Yanqui Ali Babas that incites local populations into revolt against the yoke of tyranny. You might recall George Washington, Tom Jefferson and Ben Franklin felt much the same about the British East Indies Company and George III's Hessian mercenaries. Basically, the difference between clear-thinking moderates like Orca, myself and others here on this thread and muddle-headed ideologues who've come unhinged from reality is that we realize that the atrocities being committed by both sides in Iraq are almost 100% the result of the imperialist grasping of American corporations lusting after Iraq's natural resource wealth. We're not nearly so blind as are the fools who only listen to the pabulum spooned out to them in dollops of mythology by the perverted propagandists at Faux News and the Limbaugh crowd. The war in Iraq is about conquest of natural resources. Once you accept this reality, everything else makes sense in its own perverted way. As was stated so wisely by Lt. Gen. Smedley Butler seven decades ago, "war is just a racket": lexrex.com