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To: elmatador who wrote (61268)	3/23/2005 3:31:29 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Respond to of 74559

ElM, my mother told me [in the 1970s] that her parents in 1935 said "this is the beginning of the decline" when the socialist welfarist Labour party won the election. primeminister.govt.nz My mother, and I, thought they didn't understand how the protection of the indigent, and community projects instead of private enterprise would be much more equitable and efficient. Then I started working, seeing thousands of examples of industry and government and welfare and life in general in action. You might not be surprised to know that I came around to my grandparents' way of thinking [in that respect anyway] - the young generally learn a bit as they age and experience and think. <At times I think: People will not revert to a state of poverty and accept that as their fate. But as Sweden shows, they have been, slowly, getting -relatively from 3rd higher income to about 20th- poorer and have accepted that as a fact of life. Perhaps, younger people in richer countries will revolt against the burden of subsidizing elderly and polarize the society, between old and young. Younger people will emigrate and give up their nationality in seek of greener pasture, moving away from the burden of supporting the older generation. > Speak of the devil. You have described New Zealand too. But New Zealand started long before Sweden. New Zealand was first to give women a vote. Women, generally, vote differently from men. They value socialist ideas more and were not so used to actually earning money and running business and industry so had little direct experience of creating wealth in the economic sense. They create wealth in human and culture terms. Men create it in economic terms. What is strange is that people DO accept poverty as their fate. For half a century, India voted itself poor. Nobody, not even the British [who made them much better off] could be blamed for their poverty. They chose it each election. New Zealand voted itself poorer, decade after decade, with interludes of sense. NZ was third wealthiest and had a great climate and countryside too! Sweden gets too cold and dark. Now it's way down the list somewhere near the third world. The revolt against the old has begun, with superannuation age having been pushed up 5 years from 60 years to 65 years. govt.nz As you say, young people are moving to other countries. About 600,000 Kiwis live overseas [with 4 million still here]. Quarter of people with degrees live overseas [that seems high, but I suppose they have counted correctly]. The more capable, smart and energetic move, the residue stays home in NZ, trying to bludge off the state and the remaining productive people. The decline from 1935 was gradual because it takes a couple of generations from a culture of work, production and doing good to shift to a culture of sloth, bludging and doing bad. There were very few bludgers to start with and bludging was very frowned on. Being on the dole was a great embarrassment. Now it's a badge of honour to be a beneficiary, or a government trough snuffler, and only the suckers work [though I think there is another shift underway as yet another generation comes through]. Mqurice PS: Michael Savage had this part right < In 1937 traveled to Britain for the coronation of King George VI and made headlines for repeatedly criticising Britain over its appeasement of Japan, Italy and Germany. This attracted much criticism for such a public display of Empire disunity.>