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Gold/Mining/Energy : PEAK OIL - The New Y2K or The Beginning of the Real End? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: kryptonic6 who wrote (256)	4/7/2005 2:02:00 AM
From: Mahatmabenfoo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1183

Life on Forbidden Planet... Earth "In short, people cannot think a thought unless the brain has been previously "wired" to think it. This is why civilization after civilization runs out of energy and collapses dieoff.com . This is also why we are presently running out of energy and hell-bent for collapse." Wow. I'm not sure if I accept that, but it's an attempt to deal with the single strangest thing about peak oil -- the fact society is not dealing with it. I am an optimist in the sense that I like to think we could deal with it -- for all of the faults of the USA and the world and individual brain wiring, we are on the doorstep of even more fabulous achievements, some of which might be a way out of the peak oil threat: - the ever tantalizing potential of fusion energy; - the planned successors to Hubble that see not only far into space (with enough resolution to see planets light years away) but literally back in celestial time (the light from an object a billion light years away is also a billion years old); - digital storage medium that can put the content of entire libraries in our pockets (where without a computer or electricty they will be useless). and so forth. Where could all that go in another 500 years, if it could be sustained? Perhaps a bigger puzzle than the inability for our leaders to face the inevitability of peak oil is the intense focus of those who DO think about the future to think about the wrong topic. Am I alone in concluding that the fuel cell "hydrogen economy" stuff is crazy? Without a supply of h2 that does not derive from fossil fuel (either as feedstock, or to make electricity to crack water) all fuel cells are nuts. They are cleaner but LESS efficient ways to use up the oil that is possibly about to enter a very steady and dangerous and permanent spiral down in supply. I doubt there's enough ocean surface on earth to use algae to create enough H2 for automobiles. Using wind power to create electricity to create H2 must be very inefficient (another case of energy lost at every step) implying that might have a lot rate of return too. That leaves H2 from coal (another waste of fossils) and from nukes (I don't have to explain what's wrong with THAT, but start with the uranium shortage). We've never had a world so choked with futurists -- in Insurance companies, in computer consulting companies, in think tanks -- and the debate, if there is one, is hangwringing about global warming. The pessimist view is our culture is not likely to live long enough to see it. Does everyone here know the 1950's movie FORBIDDEN PLANET? One of the best movies ever made -- even with Walt Disney doing special effects in a pre-digital era. imdb.com I won't give away the plot, except to say it's about an advanced civilization that was unable to perceive it was destroying itself. In this way film is a collective dream; or a collective nightmare, trying to send warnings the conscious brain will not accept. Why is it so difficult to alert people to the dangers of peak oil? Subconsciously, everyone knows. - Charles

To: kryptonic6 who wrote (256)	4/14/2005 5:45:00 PM
From: Broken_Clock	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1183

krypt, Jay is a friend of mine. His mind is as sharp as a razor. Here's a funny story: In the synopsis Jay mentions he once ran for office. Here's what happened(IMO). Jay had the idea that the public would support his campaign because he actually made sense. He wanted to put a 2 year moratorium on all development on our island. The public would interact with government during that time and come up with a 50 year plan for sustainable existence which would allow controlled growth. Everybody thought it was a wonderful idea. He got hammered in the election by a do nothing novice the sucked up to the powers that be. What happened? Why did the voters abandon Jay? Simple. Everyone figured out that while Jay's concept made total sense, it would also restrict each individual access ot the present corrupt system. In other words, you couldn't get away with anything like adding that unpermitted bedroom for a little extra income, couldn't talk to "uncle" down at the planning dept. to get a little special treatment, etc.