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Pastimes : Prophecy -- HYPE or HOPE? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (3200)	4/6/2005 10:48:47 PM
From: alan w	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5569

Oh oh, more bad news for you Emile. The blindness of Israel is only temporary. 25 ¶ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: Is. 59.20 27 for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Jer. 31.33, 34 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Who is "ye" and who is "their" in this verse? 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

To: alan w who wrote (3200)	4/7/2005 12:28:57 AM
From: gregor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 5569

Alan: When thank God I find myself on opposite sides of the pole from you, which thankfully is not often it is always on this topic of predestination, and you cannot call it anything else but. Deuteronomy 29:4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. Isaiah 29:10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. Remembering the topic of God 'hardening the heart of pharaoh' and that of creating pharaoh for this purpose, so that God would be exalted among the nations of the earth, I remember researching the greek term used for 'hardening' and finding a term that really means to in modern terminology "bringing to a boil" or putting someone on the fence or sharpening the blade of the sword, forcing someone to make a decision, making it more difficult for someone to stay neutral. Sharpening the feelings or polarizing someone to bring about their true intentions, or making them stick out and be obvious and not to be hidden. All this does not mean that God predestined the Jews to turn out the way they did. Isaiah 5:24 Judah is abandoned to judgement for treachery, drunkeness, rebellion, oppression of the poor, dead spirits, pride, hating the word of God, ignorance brought on by laziness,pleasure in sin, coveting, and bearing bad fruit. Your logic assumes that God placed all these sins and misgivings, and failures, and is the agent, the causitive agent that makes only certain people do wrong, when we know that God is not a respector of persons. After so long a time, generations, in fact I might see God's spirit grieving and hurt and battered and unsolaced to the point his spirit is withdrawn bringing about an exaggeration of wrong behavior but to believe that God predestined it, never will I nor can I. I got into a discussion this week of God sending people to hell. I can see Christ at hells gate trying to snatch any he can out of the fire, in fact pulling some whose feet are already in the fire, but to say He sends them there. NO. The truth is that people send themselves to hell by their actions and sins and their disregard for the laws of God. I can see the laws of God requiring hell for those not in Christ. Your statements go far beyond God sending people to hell. What you are really saying is that God encourages people to sin to make sure they will go to hell. The God I know is and can only think one way and that is He is always in the mode to encourage people not to sin. In Christ....Gregor