some interesting discussion on this.
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Re:Wow, no US teams placed! (Score:5, Interesting)
by drgonzo59 (747139) on Thursday April 07, @12:39PM (#12166465)
It's like with any test. If you pass, the first thing it shows is that you can do _that_ particular test well. Of course the reason for the test is to show that you are knowledgeble in the whole domain that the test was compiled from, but that is a speculation. You are right, I can spend the whole year, doing nothing but learning all the algorithms that might show up on the exam, and practice to solve a common set of problem fast, sothen I migth do well on that contest, but I might still not do well in general in college or workplace.
That said, I also happen to be from Russia, and I can say that in general education system there is more thorough and more focused on the science than here in US (I went to schools in US too). Here all schools seem to be doing is try to make students comfortable, they have a hundreds of clubs and activities for after school. Everyone and their little brother wants to play sports or play in the band first then study. Schools try to be fun, instead of trying to make student learn something usefull. I remember coming to this country and doing my sophomore grade in fairly good high school, but I had to take calculus with the graduating seniors and I remember tutoring them in math even though I was an average student at home in that subject.
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Re:what about college? (Score:3, Insightful)
by drgonzo59 (747139) on Friday April 08, @01:38AM (#12173365)
Actually most of my American professors are not from America, they are Chinese, Russian, Romanian, Indian, Greek and Egyptian.
I am not bashing Americans and saying the whole country is worse and those "great" foreigners are all better. It just happens that science, sadly, is not a strong point in the American education.
Secondary education is different, while high schools are fairly uniform, colleges are very different from each other -- some are really good, some average, some should just stick to basket weaving.
Sometime colleges compensate for the high school's shortcomings. Freshmen usually are required to take a math series in the first year, if they manage to step up and pass, they'll be ok, if not, basket weaving or plumbing is highly encouraged as an alternative career choice.
I just think, from what I have experienced, that high school science here is watered down. The kids are encouraged to run around chase a ball or play the trumpet, while they can't read or write. Teachers don't dare make the "poor" students feel stupid so they water the stuff down. In my high school back home in Russia I had to spend the whole time outside the classes doing homework and only then if I had time, do extracurricular activities. If most people failed the test they just got bad grades and that's it. (Note: that encourages some frequent cheating, a bad problem in that neck of the woods) The few of the ones that managed to do well and studied all the stuff are much better and end up coming to this country usually to teach and learn from the other people just like them from all over the world, while at the same time doing a ton of research for this country.
To summarize, I think the science program in US high schools is simplified and dumbed down to cater to the below average student, at the expense of depriving the better students of a good and thorough science curriculum.
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Look pretty realistic to me (Score:5, Interesting)
by CaymanIslandCarpedie (868408) on Thursday April 07, @11:28AM (#12165709)
To begin, no I didn't attend any of the places mentioned in this article so I'm not biased.
Now the host placing first may seem a bit suspicious, but the other universities in the top four certainly lend some credibility to it.
I've worked with a number of russion developers which have come from those universities and they were quite brilliant. It seems they actually teach math and physics there, what a concept! ;-)
I personally rate the University of Waterloo (in Canada) the top computer science university in North America. Yes high profile places like MIT have some brilliant people, but I've found the University of Waterloo has the most consistant quality of graduates. If you look at the accomplishments of Waterloo grads it pretty impressive. Research In Motion (Blackberries) are probably the most well known company founded by UofW grads, but there are lots of others which are also very impressive. Thier policy on requiring LOTS of real world experience for the degree and work/research opportunities in there technology park also gives lots of great experiance.
I've found UofW grads aren't those "fresh out of college" types who have some book knowledge, but not much practical experience. They tend to walk out after graduating ready to REALLY contribute instead of needing a lot of "mentoring" which most fresh grads need (I know I did).
[ Reply to This ]
* Re:Look pretty realistic to me by KingEomer (Score:1) Thursday April 07, @12:14PM
* Re:Look pretty realistic to me by zx75 (Score:3) Thursday April 07, @01:05PM
Re:Look pretty realistic to me (Score:4, Informative)
by Skyhawkelite (874245) on Thursday April 07, @02:32PM (#12167789)
Hey, this is my first post ever in Slashdot :P. Anyways, I am a UofW engineering student and I'd like you to know a bit about my University and Canada.
University of Waterloo is THE top school in Canada according to Maclaens and is THE top University in Canada for Engineering + CS. The University has the largest Co-op education service in the world. All engineering students and CS students have Co-op every other term. I'm on my co-op term right now. The University's main goal as of now is to ready its students for the work force. We gain 2 years work experience by the time we graduate.
The University is very young (I think found in 1957) and has rapidly grown because of its connections with companies like RIM and COM DEV. Our Chancellor is the President of RIM! RIM Headquarters is next door to us. Across the street we have the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics.
Also, UW is the recruiting ground for M$ (maybe we all hate them, but meh). A lot of the top engineers and programmers in Canada come from UW and end up in the states due to nice offers and oppurtunities. We call that the "Brain Drain."
UW DOES NOT have courses or teachings that are directed towards contests. The courses are extemely rigourous with high expectations. All courses force a lot of critical thinking. We take Math and Science seriously here.
UW conducts nationwide math, physics, and chem contests to high schoolers as well. In Engineering you have to write an entrance math test (which most people fail, but its Bell Curved). If your below standards, they offer mandatory math tutorial services to you. We also recently placed 4th in PUTNAM math comepetition.
Also, addressing the jokes about US being beaten by Canada: Canada has played important roles in science and engineering. Especially since the layed off workers from the Arrow project worked on NASA's Mercury and Apollo missions. That's right, it's our engineers and scientists that helped US get to the Moon. The Arrow project in itself is a great feat for Canada. Arrow was for more advanced than any US aircraft for very long time.
Currently, UW is looking towards raising funds and improving our Graduate programs to become top notch like MIT. We are also investing quite a lot of money to bring top professors in. UW is already good enough to be treated like an Ivy League school in my opinion. However, once we do invest in research I can garantee 50 years from now it will be well known and respected Internationally.
O, by the way...I'm an American :P.
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