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Gold/Mining/Energy : PEAK OIL - The New Y2K or The Beginning of the Real End? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Umunhum who wrote (333)	4/14/2005 6:24:18 PM
From: Jurgis Bekepuris	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1183

>>Just because the EROEI is 20 times less efficient does not mean that the energy derived from shale is 20 times more expensive<< I guess they mean that it is "20 times more expensive in energy money". If you valued the output in "barrels" instead of "dollars", the statement would be correct. For 1 "barrel" you could buy 30 barrels of energy from crude or 1.35 barrels of energy from tar sands. So tar sand energy is 20 times more expensive than crude energy. Now, the price comparison in dollars is not so easy, because a lot of assumptions go in into what are the salaries of people working in the production, what are EROEI costs of machinery, etc. >>This board has taken a very dim view of the future lately.<< I am trying to look for the possibilities of the bright future. >>According to Ken Deffeyes coal can be turned into gasoline for about $1.75 per gallon<< At what EROEI? Do you have pointer to this? Jurgis

To: Umunhum who wrote (333)	4/14/2005 8:35:26 PM
From: Doug R	Respond to of 1183

I couldn't find any mention of $1.75/gallon in connection with Duffeyes. I checked a lot of stuff on the Fischer-Tropsch process and would like to know how many gallons of diesel is produced from a ton of coal. The process can also turn NG into liquid fuel. Qatar seems to be in the lead of wanting to use FT to turn NG to deisel. Those Middle East countries...sheesh. It appears that FT plants need to be big enough to produce 100,000+ bbl/day of "product" to be cost competitive. What that "product" is (oil or wax or deisel) doesn't seem to be something that anyone readily clarifies. There are some FT plants running now that do 5000 to 10,000 bbl/day making niche products. Again though, the contents of the bbls isn't necessarily fuel. If I had my druthers I would go with something that didn't turn the planet into a giant strip mine or slice off the tops of too many mountains or entail too much more deforestation. Something like thermal depolymerization: boosman.com changingworldtech.com jointly owned by CAG I think they gotta do something about the odor surrounding the facilities though.