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Strategies & Market Trends : Booms, Busts, and Recoveries -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (62102)	4/16/2005 9:48:41 PM
From: Seeker of Truth	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

If you read the history of Standard Oil you can find out that Rockefeller hired thugs to destroy his competitors' pipe lines. His consequent monopoly position enabled him to cheat his buyers by monopolistic pricing. As for TobagoJack, last thing I heard he doesn't own any factory or even a piece of any factory that pays either sweatshop wages or good wages. So how does he get to be fleecing anybody? Selfishness? Have you evidence that he is not serious about philanthropy? His position looks like the rest of us on this board; we are basically bystanders, placing bets on the outcome. The consequences of these bets are important for us as individuals but don't affect the general situation and the mass of people. I can't understand your arguments, but the general gist seems to be that you are optimistic about the US market and he is not so his stance annoys you. Well fair enough, but you don't have to make it into a big moral issue, which it isn't. Sometimes annoying words are like bitter medicines, they may cure wrong actions, if taken seriously.

To: Ilaine who wrote (62102)	4/16/2005 10:46:51 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

<Not angry, just sad for you. If fleecing the rubes is the way you want to live your life, too bad.> CB, in defence of TJ, and speculators in general, they should be considered financial heroes, not crooks and spivs. TJ forces nobody to trade. He operates within SEC rules and has voluntary adult counterparties who trade with him. The service he performs, with great risk to his financial well-being, is to reduce market volatility. Market volatility is a bad thing, leading to extra costs, and even market collapses. The less volatility we have, the better. It takes millions of speculators and umpty $billions to be risked to reduce volatility. Not only is he carrying the risk of trying to make money in a zero-sum game, he also has to pay spreads and sundry intermediaries to conduct his trades and then has to pay tax on the profits. All that cost and all he gets is any gains due to other people making misjudgments about values. If nobody tries to sell at a foolishly low price, he will have to try to make money by buying at higher prices. By being a willing buyer, lining up with other competitors for a bargain, he ensures the seller gets a higher price than would be the case if TJ didn't take those risks and like me, lazed around at the beach, on the golf course, or ranting 90 to the dozen. I might buy the desperate seller's stock but at a lower price than the ever-vigilant TJ. That would not be nice for the seller. TJ ensures they get a higher price than would otherwise be the case. He provides liquidity to the market and in the event of things going wrong in the markets in his portfolio, he carries the can. His bet is that he is right and the counterparties are wrong. He even pays for the privilege of taking that bet [by paying the spread, broker fees and taxes]. What a noble man! Hooray for TJ and the courageous speculators. Many speculators have failed, lost their stakes, gone back to work, or even taken their own lives. I know of one Sier who did that. It is not employment that anyone can take on. Most people are more sensibly employed in factories or providing services on an hourly rate. Speculators should only invest the money they can afford to lose. They come into the category of philanthropic investing = high risk investing which benefits the community but could well see them lose their investment. You'll mostly only hear about the successful ones. Mqurice

To: Ilaine who wrote (62102)	4/16/2005 10:59:19 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 74559

<I don't give a damn about you, per se, but I do feel compassion for those that are destroyed by your selfishness> Hey, that's not very nice CB. TJ is a Daddy and it would be a great shame if he failed and was not able to nurture his responsibilities. Also, TJ doesn't destroy anybody by his selfishness. I don't even think it's fair to call it selfishness. As a counterparty to TJ, in the case for example of me having to sell my beloved QCOM to him because I misjudge reality of the investment and my personal financial situation, it is not he who destroys me, but he who saves me. As I mentioned in the other post, if, when I finally, belatedly, and foolishly decided to sell my beloved Globalstar shares at 25c with a view to buying the Senior Notes, there had not been a speculating counterparty to the trade, I would have got zero for my property. I would have been sadder. Jay acted as counter-party in Global Crossing and bought some debt at a high price, only to see it sink to near zero. He saved the remnants of somebody's bacon. That was GOOD for the seller. I was just wondering whether I feel the need for compassion in regard to my vast loss in Globalstar. I don't. It was my own blunder in analyzing the company. There is an aspect in that I was somewhat misled by the "on plan" claims of Bernie Schwartz, but even those I was partly taking with a grain of salt. I don't need compassion for my loss to the shorters but thanks for your thought. Come to think of it, I do feel somewhat sick that Anthony@Pacific might have been one of the shorters who sold me that dirty great Tonka Truckload of Globalstar shares. Groan. That does make me feel poorly. But even then, Anthony@ was taking his chances and being a speculator - he could well have lost. He's in prison and I'm not, so maybe it's he who needs more compassion. Giggle... Mqurice PS: I give a damn about you TJ. You are a wonderful Daddy and I hope your burgeoning blossom doesn't drag home anything too hideous in a few years time to cause you psychic trauma. You WILL need compassion in that case. I hereby offer it in anticipation.

To: Ilaine who wrote (62102)	4/16/2005 11:05:19 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Respond to of 74559

PS: <They didn't try to cheat their buyers, and they didn't shit on the people who gave them good money. > I haven't seen any of that by TJ in the 4 years TJ has tried to save me from myself. Mq

To: Ilaine who wrote (62102)	4/17/2005 1:33:40 AM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Hello CB, Oh yeah, I the entrepreneur is wasting my life, and you the lawyer is creating value. Yeah, again, China is getting smaller, and so you need not fuss over it. Yeah once more, I am selfish in saving souls from financial destruction, and you are altruistic in cheer-leading. I must be living on another planet. <<just sad for you>> ... thanks much, but I got enough happiness to spare, and not a sad bone to be found. For someone not angry, you seem to be full of venom, against a people and a country. That is the truly sad state of just is, but no matter, to the rest of us. Chugs, J