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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: tejek who wrote (230342)4/22/2005 4:01:20 PM
From: longnshort  Respond to of 1573102
 
Gee, the commies killed 100 million in just 50 years, wow in 500 years it would have been 1 BILLION, lets give them another chance



To: tejek who wrote (230342)4/22/2005 8:09:04 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1573102
 
The Inquisition was effective as a weapon against the Reformation. It has been estimated that the Church murdered an astounding 50 million human beings over the period of the Inquisition, which, shockingly, did not end until the 19th century.

That seems like a very high overestimation of deaths from the inquisition. Estimates range from 2,000 to 300,000, with most of them being on the lower end of that range.

"Finally, only 2,000 were executed, a small percentage of the 100,000 put on trial."

catholiceducation.org
(Note that estimate only includes the Spanish Inquisition)

"In the last 20 years virtually all reputable secular historians have revised witch death rates to 40,000-60,000 and less than 500 witch deaths caused directly by the Church through the Inquisition."

"Although these deaths are inexcusable, they are a long way from the 9 million number quoted in the Nation Film Board's popular (but unhistorical) movie called "The Burning Times." Jenny Dobbins belongs to a wiccan movement and she is also an historian. If anyone should be against the Church it would be her. She wrote an article found on the pagan web site "Covenant of the Goddess." Although the site and the wiccan path in general make me cringe, her article is stunning. She has an MA in medieval history and a minor in the Great Hunt. I have a great respect for the integrity with which she reveals the truth about the burning times to her wiccan associates. The full article is here: cog.org

Since the late 1970's, a quiet revolution has taken place in the study of historical witchcraft and the Great European Witch Hunt. ... many theories which reigned supreme thirty years ago have vanished, swept away by a flood of new data… the quantity and quality of available evidence has dramatically improved...Today, for the first time, we have a good idea of the dimensions of the Great Hunt: where the trials occurred, who was tried in them, who did the killing, and how many people lost their lives… Every aspect of the Great Hunt, from chronology to death toll, has changed. And if your knowledge of the "Burning Times" is based on popular or Pagan literature, nearly everything you know may be wrong…"

davidmacd.com

How many people were killed in the Inquisition?

There were two major Inquisitions, the Medieval Inquisition and Spanish Inquisition. Although there are no exact numbers, scholars believe they have estimated Inquisition deaths reasonably accurately. There were not as many deaths as the popular press claims. Numbers have often been inflated to as high as 9 million by the popular press, with absolutely no scholarly research. This figure is completely erroneous. A broad range of scholars, many of whom were not Catholic, have carefully studied the Inquisitions. They looked at all the existing records and were able to extrapolate. In the Medieval Inquisition, Bernard Gui was one of the most notorious of the medieval inquisitors. (so much so that the sick modern pornography industry has turned him into a hero). He tried 930 people out of which 42 were executed (4.5%). Another famous Inquisitor was Jacques Fournier who tried 114 cases of which 5 were executed (4.3%). Using numbers that are known, scholars have been able to surmise that approximately 2,000 people died in the Medieval Inquisition. (1231-1400 AD)

According to public news reports the book's editor, Prof. Agostino Borromeo, stated that about 125,000 persons were investigated by the Spanish Inquisition, of which 1.8% were executed (2,250 people). Most of these deaths occurred in the first decade and a half of the Inquisition’s 350 year history. In Portugal of the 13,000 tried in the 16th and early 17th century 5.7% were said to have been condemned to death. News articles did not report if Portugal’s higher percentage included those sentenced to death in effigy (i.e. an image burnt instead of the actual person). For example, historian Gustav Henningsen reported that statistical tabulations of 50,000 recorded cases tried by nineteen Spanish tribunals between 1540-1700 found 775 people (1.7%) were actually executed while another 700 (1.4%) were sentenced to death in effigy ("El 'banco de datos' del Santo Oficio: Las relaciones de causas de la Inquisición española, 1550-1700", BRAH, 174, 1977). Jewish historian Steven Katz remarked on the Medieval Inquisition that “in its entirety, the thirteenth and fourteenth century Inquisition put very few people to death and sent few people to prison; 90 percent of its sentences were canonical penances” (The Holocaust in Historical Context, 1994).

During the high point of the Spanish Inquisition from 1478-1530 AD, scholars found that approximately 1,500-2,000 people were found guilty. From that point forward, there are exact records available of all "guilty" sentences which amounted to 775 executions. In the full 200 years of the Spanish Inquisition, less than 1% of the population had any contact with it, people outside of the major cities didn't even know about it. The Inquisition was not applied to Jews or Moslems, unless they were baptised as Christians.

If we add the figures, we find that the entire Inquisition of 500 years, caused about 6,000 deaths. These atrocities are completely inexcusable. These numbers are however, a far cry from the those used in the popular press by people who are always looking to destroy the Church. This is about equal to the number of war related deaths that have occurred in Afghanistan and Iraq in the 2 years since the US responded to 9/11.

Another thing to note is that the Spanish Inquisition, in a wrong way, may have saved some lives. In many European countries in the 16th century, religious wars were the cause of tens of thousands of deaths. But in Spain, there was political and religious unity as a result of the Inquisition, and there was no such war.

Nevertheless, the Inquisition tortures and death were inexcusable. I echo the voice of John Paul II "Forgive us Lord, Never Again"

davidmacd.com

Other estimates -

# Spanish Inquisition (1478-1834)

* Cited in Will Durant, The Reformation (1957):
o Juan Antonio Llorente, General Secretary of the Inquisition from 1789 to 1801, estimated that 31,912 were executed, 1480-1808.
o In contrast to the high estimate cited above, Durant tosses his support to the following low estimates:
+ Hernando de Pulgar, secretary to Queen Isabella, estimated 2,000 burned before 1490.
+ An unnamed "Catholic historian" estimated 2,000 burned, 1480-1504, and 2,000 burned, 1504-1758.
* PGtH: 8,800 deaths by burning, 1478-1496
* Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church (1910): 8,800 burnt in 18 years of Torquemada. (acc2 Buckle and Friedländer)
* Motley, Rise of the Dutch Republic: 10,220 burnt in 18 years of Torquemada
* Britannica: 2,000
* Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 35,534 burned.
* Fox's Book of Martyrs, Ch.IV: 32,000 burned
* Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 32,000 k. by burning; 20,226 k. before 1540
* Wertham: 250,000
* Rummel: 350,000 deaths overall.
* MEDIAN: 8,800 under Torq.; 32,000 all told.
* Punished by all means, not death.
o Fox: 309,000
o P. Johnson: 341,000
o Motley: 114,401

users.erols.com

"Q: Is religion responsible for more more violent deaths than any other cause?

A: No, of course not -- unless you define religion so broadly as to be meaningless. Just take the four deadliest events of the 20th Century -- Two World Wars, Red China and the Soviet Union -- no religious motivation there, unless you consider every belief system to be a religion.

Q: So, what you're saying is that religion has never killed anyone.

A: Arrgh... You all-or-nothing people drive me crazy. There are many documented examples where members of one religion try to exterminate the members of another religion. Causation is always complex, but if the only difference between two warring groups is religion, then that certainly sounds like a religious conflict to me. Is it the number one cause of mass homicide in human history? No. Of the 22 worst episodes of mass killing, maybe four were primarily religious. Is that a lot? Well, it's more than the number of wars fought over soccer, or sex (The Trojan and Sabine Wars don't even make the list.), but less than the number fought over land, money, glory or prestige.

In my Index, I list 41 religious conflicts compared with 27 oppressions under "Communism", 24 under Colonialism, 2 under "Railroads" and 2 under "Scapegoats". Make of that what you will."

users.erols.com

15,000 (estimated) - Holy Inquisition (Europe). 1184 - 1800

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_disasters_by_death_toll#Religious_sacrifice

""In times past, cruel practices were commonly used by legitimate governments to maintain law and order, often without protest from the Pastors of the Church, who themselves adopted in their own tribunals the prescriptions of Roman law concerning torture. Regrettable as these facts are, the Church always taught the duty of clemency and mercy. She forbade clerics to shed blood. In recent times it has become evident that these cruel practices were neither necessary for public order, nor in conformity with the legitimate rights of the human person. On the contrary, these practices led to ones even more degrading. It is necessary to work for their abolition. We must pray for the victims and their tormentors (no. 2298)".

However, anti-Catholic pamphleteers and historians have grossly exaggerated the numbers, asserting that millions died at the stake. Though the actual numbers are far less (3,000-5,000), these fiery deaths were quite real and regrettable. "

biblia.com