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To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (62552)	4/23/2005 2:24:02 AM
From: Gib Bogle	Respond to of 74559

In this age when so much information on every subject is so freely available, you might think that we'd be enjoying a new Age of Enlightenment. But the sad truth is that people still believe what they want to believe, for their own convoluted reasons.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (62552)	4/23/2005 11:10:15 AM
From: Slagle	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Seeker of Truth: It was the deliberate policy of the New Dealers to enter the war by provoking the Japanese to attack because the Congress would not allow it otherwise. Read Cordell Hull's memoirs, Hull being FDR's Secretary of State who spent the Summer and Fall of 1941 cloistered with the Japanese in negoiations). Read Winston Churchill's "Finest Hour" and "Gathering Storm". In all the very many post Pear Harbour investigations conducted by FDR's senatorial and congressional enemies, including the trials of Admiral Kemmal and General Short it was accepted and openly admitted by numerous New Deal insiders from the dock that there was intentional provocations. That is not what the inquistiors were looking for, that was a given and openly addmitted. What they were trying to find was evidence of advance knowldge of the attack, which was treason. As for Korea, after four terms of the New Deal there were so many communists in the State Department that communist partisans were being supported in every war zone. Truman quickly fired the leading communists he inherited from Dr. Roosevelt (Harry Hopkins, Harlold Ickes, Henry Wallace and others) but down in the ranks they still numbered in the thousands and it was these people, junior state department bureaucrats of the Alger Hiss and John Service type who made sure that Korea went communist and that every support was lent to Mao and others communists. Later in the 1940's HUAC hearings sent many of the remaining New Deal communists to jail and a few to the electric chair but the damage had already been done. Slagle

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (62552)	4/24/2005 1:13:42 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Re: Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour; this forced the US into the Asian war. I'd encourage you to take a look at "Day of Deceit" by Robert Stinnett: amazon.com This review pretty well summarizes the scope of the book: <SNIP> From Publishers Weekly Historians have long debated whether President Roosevelt had advance knowledge of Japan's December 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor. Using documents pried loose through the Freedom of Information Act during 17 years of research, Stinnett provides overwhelming evidence that FDR and his top advisers knew that Japanese warships were heading toward Hawaii. The heart of his argument is even more inflammatory: Stinnett argues that FDR, who desired to sway public opinion in support of U.S. entry into WWII, instigated a policy intended to provoke a Japanese attack. The plan was outlined in a U.S. Naval Intelligence secret strategy memo of October 1940; Roosevelt immediately began implementing its eight steps (which included deploying U.S. warships in Japanese territorial waters and imposing a total embargo intended to strangle Japan's economy), all of which, according to Stinnett, climaxed in the Japanese attack. Stinnett, a decorated naval veteran of WWII who served under then Lt. George Bush, substantiates his charges with a wealth of persuasive documents, including many government and military memos and transcripts. Demolishing the myth that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence, he shows that several Japanese naval broadcasts, intercepted by American cryptographers in the 10 days before December 7, confirmed that Japan intended to start the war at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett convincingly demonstrates that the U.S. top brass in Hawaii--Pacific Fleet commander Adm. Husband Kimmel and Lt. Gen. Walter Short--were kept out of the intelligence loop on orders from Washington and were then scapegoated for allegedly failing to anticipate the Japanese attack (in May 1999, the U.S. Senate cleared their names). Kimmel moved his fleet into the North Pacific, actively searching for the suspected Japanese staging area, but naval headquarters ordered him to turn back. Stinnett's meticulously researched book raises deeply troubling ethical issues. While he believes the deceit built into FDR's strategy was heinous, he nevertheless writes: "I sympathize with the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." This, however, is an expression of understanding, not of absolution. If Stinnett is right, FDR has a lot to answer for--namely, the lives of those Americans who perished at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett establishes almost beyond question that the U.S. Navy could have at least anticipated the attack. The evidence that FDR himself deliberately provoked the attack is circumstantial, but convincing enough to make Stinnett's bombshell of a book the subject of impassioned debate in the months to come. End Snip *** I've read the book and found it quite persuasive. As with 9/11, it is nearly impossible to believe the "incompetence theory" presented by the government as its defense of itself.

To: Seeker of Truth who wrote (62552)	4/24/2005 1:13:50 PM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Re: Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour; this forced the US into the Asian war. I'd encourage you to take a look at "Day of Deceit" by Robert Stinnett: tinyurl.com This review pretty well summarizes the scope of the book: <SNIP> From Publishers Weekly Historians have long debated whether President Roosevelt had advance knowledge of Japan's December 7, 1941, attack on Pearl Harbor. Using documents pried loose through the Freedom of Information Act during 17 years of research, Stinnett provides overwhelming evidence that FDR and his top advisers knew that Japanese warships were heading toward Hawaii. The heart of his argument is even more inflammatory: Stinnett argues that FDR, who desired to sway public opinion in support of U.S. entry into WWII, instigated a policy intended to provoke a Japanese attack. The plan was outlined in a U.S. Naval Intelligence secret strategy memo of October 1940; Roosevelt immediately began implementing its eight steps (which included deploying U.S. warships in Japanese territorial waters and imposing a total embargo intended to strangle Japan's economy), all of which, according to Stinnett, climaxed in the Japanese attack. Stinnett, a decorated naval veteran of WWII who served under then Lt. George Bush, substantiates his charges with a wealth of persuasive documents, including many government and military memos and transcripts. Demolishing the myth that the Japanese fleet maintained strict radio silence, he shows that several Japanese naval broadcasts, intercepted by American cryptographers in the 10 days before December 7, confirmed that Japan intended to start the war at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett convincingly demonstrates that the U.S. top brass in Hawaii--Pacific Fleet commander Adm. Husband Kimmel and Lt. Gen. Walter Short--were kept out of the intelligence loop on orders from Washington and were then scapegoated for allegedly failing to anticipate the Japanese attack (in May 1999, the U.S. Senate cleared their names). Kimmel moved his fleet into the North Pacific, actively searching for the suspected Japanese staging area, but naval headquarters ordered him to turn back. Stinnett's meticulously researched book raises deeply troubling ethical issues. While he believes the deceit built into FDR's strategy was heinous, he nevertheless writes: "I sympathize with the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt. He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom." This, however, is an expression of understanding, not of absolution. If Stinnett is right, FDR has a lot to answer for--namely, the lives of those Americans who perished at Pearl Harbor. Stinnett establishes almost beyond question that the U.S. Navy could have at least anticipated the attack. The evidence that FDR himself deliberately provoked the attack is circumstantial, but convincing enough to make Stinnett's bombshell of a book the subject of impassioned debate in the months to come. End Snip *** I've read the book and found it quite persuasive. As with 9/11, it is nearly impossible to believe the "incompetence theory" presented by the government as its defense of itself.