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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (230714)	4/26/2005 12:11:19 AM
From: combjelly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572507

"But the facts are much different than your fiction." You have to be careful here. Taro and Peter are operating under the "single drop" theory that any socialistic tendencies meant that it is all socialistic. Hitler was a complex individual. He had a genuine desire to help his (adopted) people. Hence his socialistic tendencies. Like the taxation and other things. One cannot forget the Volkswagen, for example. However, he had a very strong drive for power. To facilitate that, he had many aspects that we identify as right wing. Hitler's bottom line was the expression of his ideal for the Germanic people, he didn't really care what the means were. A good analysis of his mindset from an American perspective can be seen in the "Great War" series by Harry Turtledove. Jake Featherstone is the prototype of an American Hitler. By design, mind you, but the series shows how such a person can develop. This series of novels is the strongest argument I have seen of why the South had to lose the Civil War. The alternative presented is so much worse than our reality... Ok, I have only read through "Blood and Iron". But that is enough for me to conclude that things could have been much worse.

To: tejek who wrote (230714)	4/26/2005 12:18:13 AM
From: Peter Dierks	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1572507

Ted: I tire too of your false denials of Hitler's socialist (leftist) roots and ideals. You can make the claims forever and it will not change the truth. I read much on the wikipedia about Hitler. It must be said the leftists in denial have posted their opinions many times on the wiki. constitutionalistnc.tripod.com "... Nazism was inspired by Italian Fascism, an invention of hardline Communist Benito Mussolini. During World War I, Mussolini recognized that conventional socialism wasn't working. He saw that nationalism exerted a stronger pull on the working class than proletarian brotherhood. He also saw that the ferocious opposition of large corporations made socialist revolution difficult. So in 1919, Mussolini came up with an alternative strategy. He called it Fascism. Mussolini described his new movement as a ``Third Way'' between capitalism and communism. As under communism, the state would exercise dictatorial control over the economy. But as under capitalism, the corporations would be left in private hands. Hitler followed the same game plan. He openly acknowledged that the Nazi party was ``socialist'' and that its enemies were the ``bourgeoisie'' and the ``plutocrats'' (the rich). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler eliminated trade unions, and replaced them with his own state-run labor organizations. Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler hunted down and exterminated rival leftist factions (such as the Communists). Like Lenin and Stalin, Hitler waged unrelenting war against small business. ..." freerepublic.com "... Further consolidation of power was achieved on January 30, 1934 with the Gesetz über den Neuaufbau des Reichs (act to rebuild the Reich). The act changed the highly decentralized federal Germany of the Weimar era into a centralized state. It disbanded state parliaments, transferred sovereign rights of the states to the Reich central government and put the state administrations under the control of the Reich administration. At the death of president Hindenburg on August 2, 1934, the Nazi controlled Reichstag merged the offices of Reichspräsident and Reichskanzler and reinstalled Hitler with the new title Führer und Reichskanzler. ... The institution of the Gestapo, police to act outside of any civil authority, highlighted the Nazi's intention to hold powerful means of directly controlling German society. Soon, mirroring Stalin's terror in the Soviet Union, an estimated army of about 100,000 spies and infiltrants operated throughout Germany, reporting to Nazi officials the activities of any critics or dissenters..." (This sure sounds like a socialist system to the uninformed. Socialists like central control, just like the National Socialist Party.) en.wikipedia.org "The ideological roots which became German "National Socialism" were based on numerous sources in European history, drawing especially from Romantic 19th Century idealism, and from a biological misreading of Friedrich Nietzsche's thoughts on "breeding upwards" toward the goal of an Übermensch (Superhuman). Hitler was an avid reader and received ideas that were later to influence Nazism from traceable publications, such as those of the Germanenorden (Germanic Order) or the Thule society. He also took many popular elements from socialism, such as socializing the property of the rich to benefit the masses, abolishing profits and rents and generously increasing social benefits. ... support these theories were highest among the working class, also in Germany. (I have read Nietzche, and many of the works describing idealism. This is leftism, and not rightism.) en.wikipedia.org "The German Party Platform The 25 point Program of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP) (i.e. the Nazi Party) was proclaimed by Adolf Hitler at a large party gathering in Munich on February 25, 1920 when the group was still known as the German Workers Party. The party kept the program when it changed its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party in April 1920 and it remained the official party program throughout the party's existence. It was adapted from Rudolf Jung's Austro-Bohemian program by Anton Drexler, Adolf Hitler, Gottfried Feder and Dietrich Eckart. Unlike the Austrian program, the NDSAP program makes no claims of being "liberal" or democratic, nor does it express an opposition to "reaction" or to aristocracy. Ten of the twenty-five points are clearly pro-labor. "The program championed the right to employment and called for the institution of profit sharing, confiscation of war profits, prosecution of userers and profiteers, nationalization of trusts, communalization of department stores, extension of the old-age pension system, creation of a national education program of all classes, prohibition of child labor, and an end to the dominance of investment capital." (4) ... "We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land". ..." (If this is not leftism, then what is it?) en.wikipedia.org And if you have in fact read to this point you will realize that I can snip just as well as you can. There is only a question in the minds of those that wish to deny that socialism is leftism.

To: tejek who wrote (230714)	4/26/2005 5:31:51 AM
From: Taro	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1572507

Allan Bullock, probably the world's greatest Hitler historian So let's agree to disagree on what I believe is an established fact, that the "Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei Deutschland" had a strong socialistic component in their name and program, which they did indeed also execute in The Reich. As for Allan Bullock, whom you believe is "the world's greatest Hitler historian", I am still waiting for some independent proof supporting your opinion on that. Links, please... Taro