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To: 8bits who wrote (62905)	4/27/2005 9:24:52 PM
From: Moominoid	Respond to of 74559

The population numbers don't match the birth and death rates for those years. So something is wrong with the data. The birth rate also falls in 1960. I figured that in 1959 - 3/1000 was excess mortality over the previous year and then in 1960 about 14/1000 and then in 1961 3/1000. But now I don't know if those statistics are correct as they don't match the population growth.

To: 8bits who wrote (62905)	4/27/2005 9:59:53 PM
From: AC Flyer	Respond to of 74559

>>I think it's higher than 12 million<< Yup. From the data that Yiwu so thoughtfully provided, there is a disappearance of approximately 41 million people from the Chinese population between 1959 and 1961. The population total declines by 13.5 million people between 1959 and 1961, but it is also necessary to add to this number the 27.8 million people by which the Chinese population should have increased between 1959 and 1961. (From 1954 to 1959, the average annual population increase was 13.9 million people). I would guess that a significant percentage of this missing 41 million is a huge reduction in the birth rate - you don't reproduce when you are starving. So, the 30 million number that is broadly accepted as the number of starvation deaths in China during this period is supported by Yiwu's "official" data. During my toddler years, Mao was killing 30 million Chinese citizens - a number close to the population of Great Britain, where I lived at that time. Here's a little Western propaganda on the topic of yi zi er shi which apparently means "swap children, then eat", a cultural tradition whose revival was yet another gift of The Great Helmsman to the Chinese people. olimu.com