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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (161577)	5/7/2005 9:43:00 AM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<You told us the Vietnamese people were "free" after the US pulled out of the south. Yet the economic facts show that neighboring countries once very similiar in economic performance to Vietnam in 1950 were able to outpace the economic performance of their totalitarian neighbor> Freedom has nothing to do with wealth. We did our best for a decade to bomb Vietnam back into the 12th century. Vietnam was never an economically advanced country and has suffered numerous, painful invasions and attempts by foreigners to dominate them. The Government of Vietnam -- the one we recognize today as the legitimate government of Vietnam -- has serious internal issues to address. And in relative terms, there is a long way to go economically. None of this has anything to do with the core issue of their freedom. Without freedom from foreign domination, nothing else matters much. Being free of foreign domination was the necessary first step for them -- and they took it. I congratulate them for it. I don't go to Vietnam much these days -- in all I have been there less than ten times and have no deep continuing role -- but I have enough on which to base my own conclusions. I have also witnessed, up close and personal, the painful confusion of those people who were once Vietnamese who sided with the US in the war and lost everything when they ran from their homeland to become "American". They are lost people. They are bitter. They are no longer Vietnamese, and that is probably what pains them the most. Some console themselves by getting on a soap box and pronouncing their views on Vietnam. Good luck to them and their tortured souls. Most simply consign themselves to the reality that they no longer know Vietnam and no longer play any role in the life of Vietnam -- and they are no longer Vietnamese. For them, there is the challenge of having no identity other than being American -- and with this they often do not feel well grounded. Spit the words out any way you like Hawk -- but fact is, you don't know what you are talking about.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (161577)	5/7/2005 9:45:15 AM
From: GST	Respond to of 281500

<You told us the Vietnamese people were "free" after the US pulled out of the south. Yet the economic facts show that neighboring countries once very similiar in economic performance to Vietnam in 1950 were able to outpace the economic performance of their totalitarian neighbor> Freedom has nothing to do with wealth. We did our best for a decade to bomb Vietnam back into the 12th century. Vietnam was never an economically advanced country and has suffered numerous, painful invasions and attempts by foreigners to dominate them. The Government of Vietnam -- the one we recognize today as the legitimate government of Vietnam -- has serious internal issues to address. And in relative terms, there is a long way to go economically. None of this has anything to do with the core issue of their freedom. Without freedom from foreign domination, nothing else matters much. Being free of foreign domination was the necessary first step for them -- and they took it. I congratulate them for it. I don't go to Vietnam much these days -- in all I have been there less than ten times and have no deep continuing role -- but I have enough on which to base my own conclusions. I have also witnessed, up close and personal, the painful confusion of those people who were once Vietnamese who sided with the US in the war and lost everything when they ran from their homeland to become "American". They are lost people. They are bitter. They are no longer Vietnamese, and that is probably what pains them the most. Some console themselves by getting on a soap box and pronouncing their views on Vietnam. Good luck to them and their tortured souls. Most simply consign themselves to the reality that they no longer know Vietnam and no longer play any role in the life of Vietnam -- and they are no longer Vietnamese. For them, there is the challenge of having no identity other than being American -- and with this they often do not feel well grounded. Spit the words out any way you like Hawk -- but fact is, you don't know what you are talking about.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (161577)	5/9/2005 4:45:48 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

And those people in Thailand and Cambodia have had FAR MORE FREEDOMS (even having to deal with Pol Pot and other Chinese/Vietnamese meddling and aggression) than have the Vietnamese people. Thailand ok. Cambodia now? Maybe I'm not sure. Cambodia under Pol Pot? No way. Sounds to me like you're in favor of North Korea launching an all-out war of "reunification" against the South. Because, after all, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT NORTH VIETNAM DID AGAINST THE SOUTH. And THAT's the reason millions of North Vietnamese died conquering their southern "brethen" so they could impose a FOREIGN form of political totalitarianism upon them. Agreed. Tim