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Politics : Israel to U.S. : Now Deal with Syria and Iran -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yaacov who wrote (8352)	5/16/2005 11:13:25 AM
From: average joe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 22250

Lenny will think he can talk his way out of it, Emile will pray but God won't come and Gussy will faint as soon as they tie him to the cutting pole and Ed they will find already missing important parts. All three of them will promise to switch sides but that will just make it worse for them. No sedation for these characters. The village dogs won't even thank them for the snack.

To: Yaacov who wrote (8352)	5/16/2005 12:01:23 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

Yaacov, aren't you confusing the Iraqi manner of castration with the Jewish practice of circumcision? The Jewish talmudic practice of circumcision requires the rabbis to "suck" the penis of the baby. Three stages required for normative and ritually correct circumcision in Jewish law: A COMPARATIVE AND HISTORICAL STUDY OF THE JEWISH RELIGIOUS ATTITUDE TO MEDICINE AND ITS PRACTICE "The method to be adopted is laid down thus: 'One excises the foreskin, [that is] the entire skin covering the glans, so that the corona is laid bare. Afterwards, one tears with the finger-nail the soft membrane underneath the skin, turning it to the sides until the flesh of the glans appears. Thereafter, one sucks the membrane until the blood is extracted from the [more] remote places, so that no danger [to the infant] may ensue; and any circumciser who does not carry out the sucking procedure is to be removed [from his office].' . . . The operation itself, then, consists of three distinct acts: the excision of the prepuce; the laceration of the mucous membrane covering the glans; and the sucking of the blood from the interior of the wound." Immanuel Jakobovits. Jewish Medical Ethics: A Comparative and Historical Study of the Jewish Religious Attitude to Medicine and Its Practice. New York: Bloch Publishing Company. 1959. pp. 193-194.

To: Yaacov who wrote (8352)	5/16/2005 12:13:08 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 22250

The Babylonian Talmud mandates sucking as the last step in the Jewish ritual of circumcision. (Remember, the Talmud, the Oral Torah according to rabbis, is equal to the written Torah in modern Judaism and its' mandates MUST be obeyed to remain in good standing in modern Judaism.) If you have difficulty verifying this, I can provide you with a URL that gives you a complete copy of the Babylonian Talmud. (Yaacov, again weren't you confusing Iraqi's culture of castration with the Jewish culture of circumcision by "sucking"?) Here are citations from the Jewish Talmud mandating the "sucking" procedure: Shabbat 133B II.1. A. Suck [out the wound]: B. Said R. Pappa, "A Surgeon who didn't suck out the wound - that is a source of danger, and we throw him out." C. So what else is new? Obviously, since we are prepared to desecrate the Sabbath on that account, it is certainly dangerous not to do it! D. What might you have supposed? That this blood is stored up. So we are informed that it is the result of the wound, and in the status of a bandage and cumin: Just as when one doesn't put on a bandage and cumin, there is danger, so here, too, if one doesn't do it, there is danger. The Talmud of Babylonia: An American Translation Translated by Jacob Neusner Number 275. Volume II.E: Shabbat Chapters 18-24. Program in Judaic Studies Brown University Atlanta: Scholars Press. 1993. p. 45. And again in: Shabbath 19:2 They may perform on the Sabbath all things that are needful for circumcision: excision, tearing, sucking [the wound], and putting thereon a bandage and cumin. If this had not been pounded up on the eve of the Sabbath a man may chew it with his teeth and then apply it. The Mishnah Translated by Herbert Danby Oxford: Oxford University Press. 1933. pp. 116-117. (It is important to keep in mind, however, that the NY Dept. of Health officials only charged Rabbi Fischer with "sucking", and not "chewing as the Talmud clearly suggests in special instances.)

To: Yaacov who wrote (8352)	5/16/2005 12:20:39 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 22250

Yaacov, do Orthodox Jews continue the "sucking" procedure even today? Forget it Yaacov! I found a recent article in the New York Daily News that documents the fact that some Orthodox rabbis continue to follow this barbaric practive from the Talmud even today: By MAGGIE HABERMAN DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER Wednesday, February 2nd, 2005 New York Daily News - nydailynews.com City health officials are investigating whether a baby boy died after contracting herpes from the rabbi who circumcised him, the Daily News has learned. The probe was launched after city officials realized that three infants in the city who tested positive for herpes last year all were circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer. The Rockland County-based Fischer is a prominent mohel - someone who performs religious CIRCUMCISIONs. Under Jewish law, a mohel is supposed to draw blood from the CIRCUMCISION wound to remove impurities. While many mohels do it by hand, Fischer uses a practice little known outside ultra-Orthodox communities called metzizah bi peh, in which the mohel uses his mouth. On Oct. 16, 2004, Fischer performed a bris, or religious CIRCUMCISION, on twins. Ten days later, one infant died of herpes, and the other tested positive for the virus, according to papers filed in Manhattan Supreme Court by city lawyers. A few weeks later, city Health Department officials found a third baby, on Staten Island, who also tested positive for herpes after being circumcised by Fischer in late 2003, the papers say. Herpes is far more dangerous to infants than adults because of babies' fragile immune systems. The health status of the two surviving boys was not clear yesterday. The city "is concerned that the possible transmission of herpes simplex virus type 1 in infants may be continuing as a result of defendant's practice of metzizah bi peh," city lawyers wrote in the complaint, dated Dec. 22. "Defendant's conduct to date constitutes a threat to the public health." The custom of metzizah is thousands of years old. But experts said that these days, many mohels breathe in through a sterile tube to draw the blood instead of using their mouths directly on the wound, although in some ultra-Orthodox sects, the oral practice is mandatory. The city asked Fischer to submit to a blood test in November, and ordered him to stop performing metzizah by mouth while waiting for the results, court papers show. Officials told him to use a sterile tube and gloves in the meantime. But the Health Department got a report that Fischer wasn't following the order, so the city filed the legal complaint to compel him do so. Fischer, 66, declined to comment yesterday. His lawyer, Mark Kurzmann, wouldn't say whether Fischer has done the blood test, citing medical confidentiality. But he said Fischer is "cooperating with the city's investigation to resolve this matter." "My client is known internationally as a caring, skilled and conscientious mohel," Kurzmann said. He suggested the babies could have contracted herpes elsewhere. He also said there are concerns about the government regulating religious practices. City lawyers declined to comment. Health officials, aware of the sensitivity of the issue, have been talking extensively to community leaders. "There's been a constructive dialogue between the community and the Department of Health, and we're working with [them] to ensure the safety of all our city's children," said Arie Lipnic, spokesman for City Councilman Simcha Felder (D-Brooklyn).