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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Road Walker who wrote (233937)	5/20/2005 9:11:41 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1575207

re: That's right........not only do they support it; they enjoy it. Good post. First, I can't believe nobody responded; that says a lot. Check out this paragraph....not only did nobody respond but one of the interrogators was considered a hero. "They also tell of Specialist Damien Corsetti, an interrogator called "Monster" - he had the word tattooed in Italian across his chest - who one sergeant praised as the "king of torture". One Saudi detainee testified that Spc Corsetti held his penis against his face and threatened to rape him." These people are nearly as bad as the Taliban and they don't even have religion as an excuse for their bad behavior. To a man or woman, they were all sick. Second, think about how the world thinks about torture. As much as I profess thinking gray on most issues, I think the world looks at torture as a black and white issue. The good guys, or the bad guys. (I spent my life thinking of us as the good guys, authors of the Geneva conventions, people who REALLY respected human life, the people who led in this stuff, the inventors of democracy and human rights, the MORAL leaders). You do understand that its mostly the international press that's running with the story. The NY Times broke the story but many US publications have not followed suit.....at least not yet. What corporate interests are interceding to keep this story surpressed? NBC News is on right now......they are leading with the Saddam pictures.........the lesser of the two problems. They do mention the tortures but very briefly. Unbelieveable. Who would have thought the Saddam pics are more important. Now, what is the world thinking about the US. With regard to torture, are we the good guys, or the bad guys. Are we moving the world forward, on a moral basis, or moving it backwards. Are we the enemy or the friend of the enlightened and progressive and, in general, the good people that are trying to make the world a better place for all of us to live. We long ago lost the title of good guys. This story only confirms what the world has been accusing us of for the past three years. This is not abu Ghraib. This is ten times worse. I'll answer my own questions. In the minds of the good folks, we are looking like every other despot regime that has tried to dominate the world stage through intimidation, death and torture. We don't look enlightened, we don't look democratic, we don't look "Christian" od ethical. We look like the current bad guys, mean spirited and sadistic. We torture and then we kill. Yup. Is it a reflection of American society in general, or is an aberration? With so many examples in at least 3 or 4 different locations, one has to wonder which it is. Are we better than our perception, certainly. Does it make a difference, no. I can picture, all over the world, good folks saying to themselves "we have to STOP THESE PEOPLE". Worse...it gives our enemies fuel for their opposition. ted

To: Road Walker who wrote (233937)	5/20/2005 9:17:15 PM
From: combjelly	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1575207

"I think the world looks at torture as a black and white issue." Exactly right. This is like the Geneva Conventions that our administration thinks are quaint. There are just some things you do, being scrupulous about the Conventions, and things you don't do, torture. That is how civilized countries behave. The ones that don't get lumped in with the Nazis. Even at our worst point in Vietnam, we weren't put in that category except by pretty extreme leftists. But with the growing body of evidence about the use of more or less gratuitous torture, it is going to be only the most rabidly pro-American ones that don't. And we will deserve it.