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To: Slagle who wrote (64111)	5/22/2005 11:56:55 PM
From: Joe S Pack	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Slagle, If you have not read Howard Zinn's 'People's History of the United States' to understand what kind of power citizen's have and how it evolved over time please read it. This also gives a nice account of how USA confiscated Texas territory from Mexico. At this rate, soon people with guns may fall under the definition of "terrorist" as per the current HLS act. obagoJack Re: "finger printing machines". This expansion of Federal police state efforts has been going on for quite a long time, at least since Nixon and I have watched it grow and wondered about it. But I don't think its anything to worry about. Here in this country, unlike anywhere else on earth, the people have vastly more firepower than the national government. Indeed, we the people are literally armed to the teeth, especially out in the "red" states and together outgun the Federal government many times over. By far the most heavily armed among us are the gentry and that includes lots of city dwelling gentry though the amount of firepower per person rises in the countryside. In your typical American town or city the most heavily armed person there is likely to be the towns leading businessman, the local Jaycees, the mayor. The New York papers would have you believe that the guys with the guns are the Klu Kluxers and some crazy militia guys out in the piney woods but that is because that New Yorkers were disarmed long ago and hence New Yorkers are helpless defenseless and powerless and so being wish to force that on the rest of us. It Ain't gonna happen. <g> Power here is diffuse and very local. Each state is a little country or kingdom with its own political dynamic and indeed its own standing army in the form of a state militia or national guard. And every governor and state house is accountable in a very personal way to the various local illuminatti out in the state. Each town or city has its own local leading lights who networked with others of their ilk call the shots in the governors office. None of these people are actually afraid of the Federal authorities and I don't think they have any reason to be. And for the most part they are all armed to the teeth so why worry about a federal power grab? Among the national elites there is surely a faction who would like to see us disarmed. This faction is generally associated with the big city liberals of the Rockerfeller type. I would guess they believe (and rightly so) that a disarmed America could be ruled by a smaller group and this ruling group would have to pay less attention to the 50 states. But I think this faction is in the decline and has been for quite a while. The fall of the Soviet Union was really the beginning of the end for this crowd. The more traditionalist types among the national elite, and this would include the Bushes are in favor of an armed citizenry. So here, unlike other places, there is a definate limit upon the ambitions of the national government. Slagle

To: Slagle who wrote (64111)	5/23/2005 12:18:01 AM
From: TobagoJack	Respond to of 74559

<<So here, unlike other places, there is a definite limit upon the ambitions of the national government>> thank goodness. counting on you :0)

To: Slagle who wrote (64111)	5/23/2005 3:13:41 AM
From: Snowshoe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

>>Here in this country, unlike anywhere else on earth, the people have vastly more firepower than the national government.<< Wrong. The US federal government controls an extremely well-armed military with lots of tanks, cluster bombs, artillery, and nuclear weapons etc. OTOH, there are plenty of other countries where central government control has collapsed, and well-armed gunmen run amuck. Think Somalia, Columbia, Iraq, etc. >>Power here is diffuse and very local. Each state is a little country or kingdom with its own political dynamic and indeed its own standing army in the form of a state militia or national guard.<< Wrong. The Feds finance and control the National Guard, much of which is currently either on duty in Iraq or preparing to go there. The governors are reduced to humble begging when they want the Guardsmen back for local stuff like fighting forest fires.