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Politics : GOPwinger Lies/Distortions/Omissions/Perversions of Truth -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sully- who wrote (48493)	5/30/2005 8:59:11 AM
From: Doug R	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

Your avocation as an apologist for torture is a particularly slimy one. You must require several showers every day.

To: Sully- who wrote (48493)	5/30/2005 11:32:38 AM
From: bentway	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 173976

America, a Symbol of . . . By BOB HERBERT This Memorial Day is not a good one for the country that was once the world's most brilliant beacon of freedom and justice. State Department officials know better than anyone that the image of the United States has deteriorated around the world. The U.S. is now widely viewed as a brutal, bullying nation that countenances torture and operates hideous prison camps at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and in other parts of the world - camps where inmates have been horribly abused, gruesomely humiliated and even killed. The huge and bitter protests of Muslims against the United States last week were touched off by reports that the Koran had been handled disrespectfully by interrogators at Guantánamo. But the anger and rage among Muslims and others had been building for a long time, fueled by indisputable evidence of the atrocious treatment of detainees, terror suspects, wounded prisoners and completely innocent civilians in America's so-called war against terror. Amnesty International noted last week in its annual report on human rights around the world that more than 500 detainees continue to be held "without charge or trial" at Guantánamo. Locking people up without explaining why, and without giving them a chance to prove their innocence, seems a peculiar way to advance the cause of freedom in the world. It's now known that many of the individuals swept up and confined at Guantánamo and elsewhere were innocent. The administration says it has evidence it could use to prove the guilt of detainees currently at Guantánamo, but much of the evidence is secret and therefore cannot be revealed. This is where the war on terror meets Never-Never Land. President Bush's close confidante, Karen Hughes, has been chosen to lead a high-profile State Department effort to repair America's image. The Bush crowd apparently thinks this is a perception problem, as opposed to a potentially catastrophic crisis that will not be eased without substantive policy changes. This is much more than an image problem. The very idea of what it means to be American is at stake. The United States is a country that as a matter of policy (and in the name of freedom) "renders" people to regimes that specialize in the art of torture. "How," asked Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, "can our State Department denounce countries for engaging in torture while the C.I.A. secretly transfers detainees to the very same countries for interrogation?" Ms. Hughes said in March that she would do her best "to stand for what President Bush called the nonnegotiable demands of human dignity." Someone should tell her that there's not a lot of human dignity in the venues where torture is inflicted. The U.S. would regain some of its own lost dignity if a truly independent commission were established to thoroughly investigate the interrogation and detention operations associated with the war on terror and the war in Iraq. A real investigation would be traumatic because it would expose behavior most Americans would never want associated with their country. But in the long run it would be extremely beneficial. William Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA, said in an interview last week that it's important to keep in mind how policies formulated at the highest levels of government led inexorably to the abusive treatment of prisoners. "The critical point is the deliberateness of this policy," he said. "The president gave the green light. The secretary of defense issued the rules. The Justice Department provided the rationale. And the C.I.A. tried to cover it up." In the immediate aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, most of the world was ready to stand with the U.S. in a legitimate fight against terrorists. But the Bush administration, in its lust for war with Iraq and its willingness to jettison every semblance of due process while employing scandalously inhumane practices against detainees, blew that opportunity. In much of the world, the image of the U.S. under Mr. Bush has morphed from an idealized champion of liberty to a heavily armed thug in camouflage fatigues. America is increasingly being seen as a dangerously arrogant military power that is due for a comeuppance. It will take a lot more than Karen Hughes to turn that around. E-mail: bobherb@nytimes.com

To: Sully- who wrote (48493)	5/30/2005 12:07:07 PM
From: 10K a day	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 173976

YOU KNOW WHAT DUDE. I THINK I HAD SOME REALLY BAD WINE LAST NIGHT AND IT MAKE ME SEE THE LORD. IT MAKE ME SIT UP THERE RIGHT BY GOD THE FATHER ON HIS RIGHT HAND AND HE TELL ME THAT PERVERSION AND DEATH AND DESECRATION OF YOUR MIND AND ALL THOSE REALLY HORRIBLE THINGS WELL THEY NOT SO BAD AND SOCIETY NORMS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF SHIT AND THAT BIG BLACK HELICOPTER HOVERING OUTSIDE YOUR WINDOW IT'S REALLY THERE. AND GEORGE BUSH IS NOT THE ANTI CHRIST BECAUSE IN ORDER TO BE THAT HE HAVE TO HAVE A CEREBRAL CORTEX SO THATS ONE SMALL FACTOR WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT.

To: Sully- who wrote (48493)	5/30/2005 12:22:46 PM
From: 10K a day	Respond to of 173976

WHATEVER U CAN GET AWAY WITH BUYER B WARE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE CONVOLUTED PENSION FUND AND PORK BARREL INS MIS REPRESENTATION. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BI CENTENNIAL BLISS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE HOWITZER POINTED AT THAT PAINT BALL GYM. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROTTING FLESH AND THE DESECRATION OF THE FABRIC OF EXISTENCE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE MIND BENDING CHARTER OF YOUR PAID FOR SCHOOLS WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROTTING PORK LEFT ON THAT HOME LAND SECURITY FENCE WAKE UP AND SMELL THE BURNT AND RUSTED HUMVEE AND THE SMELL OF GASOLINE RUNNING BEFORE U LIGHT THAT MATCH WAKE UP AND SMELL THE IMPERIALISTIC SMOKEY MIRROR THAT IS TAPPING U ON THE LEG LIKE SOME CHILD WITHOUT A HOME WAKE UP AND SMELL THE NAPALM IN THE MORNING AND THE DAISY CUTTER ON YOUR WINDOW. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ISP TRACKING YOUR CLICKS. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FBI PAYROLL. THE CIA PAYROLL THE IRS PAYROLL THE PENTAGON PAYROLL THE WH PAYROLL THE HOUSE OF REP PAYROLL THE SENATE PAYROLL THE LOCAL GOV PAYROLL THE WATER CO PAYROLL THE ELECTRIC CO PAYROLL THE PRICE OF LAND CONVERSION PAYROLL THE BUILDER PAYROLL THE GUY FALLING OFF THE ROOF AND SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER. SMELL THAT TOO. DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. GO MY SON AND EXPERIENCE IT ALL FOR YOURSELF. GO AND PLAY THAT GAME SECOND LIFE. AND EXPERIENCE IT ALL FOR YOURSELF...

To: Sully- who wrote (48493)	5/30/2005 2:39:23 PM
From: longnshort	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 173976

There is more prisoner abuse in the San Francisco city jail