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To: unclewest who wrote (117449)	5/31/2005 11:24:28 PM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 793958

The real question is does the ACLU have the power to prevent us from using our religious symbols to practise our religions? So far the answer is yes. I must have missed something. I can't imagine that they would have the power even if they wanted to do such a thing. The ACLU stands up for people's rights to practice their religions all the time. They also stand up against what they perceive is government sanction or imposition of a particular religion. There's a big difference.

To: unclewest who wrote (117449)	6/1/2005 2:42:48 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793958

The real question is does the ACLU have the power to prevent us from using our religious symbols to practise our religions? So far the answer is yes. Actually, the ACLU stands up for personal religious freedom. They always take cases where an individual is being kept from expressing religious beliefs as an individual. From their website: >>Americans enjoy a degree of religious freedom unknown in most of the rest of the world, and they take full advantage it: the United States is home to more than 1,500 different religious bodies and 360,000 churches, synagogues and mosques. The right of each and every American to practice his or her own religion, or no religion at all, is among the most fundamental of the freedoms guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. The Constitution's framers understood very well that religious liberty can flourish only if the government leaves religion alone. The free exercise clause of the First Amendment guarantees the right to practice one's religion free of government interference. The establishment clause requires the separation of church and state. Combined, they ensure religious liberty. Yet assaults on the freedom to believe continue, both in Washington and in state legislatures around the country. The ACLU will continue working to ensure that religious liberty is protected by keeping the government out of the religion business. Use the resources on this page to learn more and take action to protect the rights guaranteed to all Americans by the Bill of Rights. FAQs ABOUT THE ACLU Why does the ACLU want to remove crosses from federal cemeteries? The ACLU is not pursuing, nor has it ever pursued, the removal of religious symbols from personal gravestones. Personal gravestones are the choice of the family members, not the choice of the government. The ACLU celebrates this freedom to choose the religious symbol of your choice. Read more about the ACLU's stance on religious freedom. Why does the ACLU object to federal employees bowing their heads? The ACLU has no knowledge about the photograph of Marines praying that has circulated on the Internet. The ACLU has also never had a spokesperson -- quoted by news organizations as "Lucius Traveler" -- by this name.<< I bolded the bit above about "keeping government out of the religious business" because I agree with the ACLU on this. I used to be a card-carrying member of the ACLU but stopped (as did Nat Hentoff) over their stance on abortion. (It's against my religion to give money to people who support abortion.) You have a right to free exercise of your religion, but you don't have a right to make me, or anybody else, support your religion qua religion. I do support your right to free exercise of your religion, on your own time, with your own money. But taxes are taken away from us at the barrel of a gun -- and it's morally wrong to put a gun to my head and make me pay taxes in order for you to put a cross on public property, or a creche in the public square. You have the right to stand on public property holding a cross, or set up a creche in the public square, as a private person. People do this every year. They set up creches on the local public square (outside the county office building) and on the steps to the US Supreme Court building. This is their right. But if the county were to put up a cross or a creche, it would be governmental endorsement of religion, using taxpayer money. The difference seems so clear to me that I don't know why you can't see the difference. It's very simple. Who paid for the cross? Who paid for the creche? Who pays to maintain the cross or the creche? If UncleWest pays, or CobaltBlue pays, out of our own pockets, voluntarily, that's private action in support of religion, and it's protected by the First Amendment. If the government puts a gun to the head of UncleWest or CobaltBlue, picks our pockets, and uses it to pay for the cross or the creche, that's state action in support of religion, and it violates the First Amendment.