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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (105559)	6/2/2005 6:34:39 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 108807

The elected Iraqi gov't doesn't agree with you. See post #117468 on the Politics for Pros thread entitled Iraq Concerned US May Leave Too Soon (kudos to kumar for posting it). The Iraq foreign minister asked the UNSC to extend the mandate authorizing the US led multinational force (the mandate ends at the end of 2005). Apparently the UNSC agreed but it didn't say what the new end date is.

To: Grainne who wrote (105559)	6/3/2005 12:52:04 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 108807

I realize that Al Qaida has arrived in large numbers now, and they are killing Americans and Iraqis. But they weren't there at all when we went adventuring in Iraq. While they might not at that point have called themselves al Qaida, many of those people were active in Iraq before our arrival as part of Saddam's military and security forces. Ttheir focus was on gassing Kurds, torturing and murdering actual or suspected political opponents of Saddam and members of their families, in some cases raping almost indiscriminatly, and the like. They didn't use suicide car bombs because they had much more efficient and effective means, through the lawful power structures, to torture and kill large numbers of Iraqis. But of course we in the U.S. were pretty much immune to those deaths, as we were pretty much immune to the deaths in Rawanda and remain immune to the deaths in Somalia, because the American media aren't weren't trumpeting those deaths all over the newspapers, news magazines, and evening and cable news broadcasts. Out of sight, out of mind. I haven't compared the numbers for myself recently, but I think that if you look at the number of Iraqis (including Kurdish Iraqis) killed before and killed after the invasion, you will find that there are many fewer deaths post-Saddam than there were during Saddam's reign. This isn't to say that the invasion was justified. I'm not discussing that issue here one way or another, and any attempt to claim that I am would be an intentional distortion and misstatement of this post. My point is only to say that I don't think it's accurate to suggest that our presence has suddenly turned Iraq from a place with few killings to one with many killings. That, I suggest, is an appearance resulting from media coverage, not a reality.