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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Bill who wrote (105681)6/6/2005 6:23:42 PM
From: trouthead  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Why did we fly certain detainees (prisoners) to other parts of the world for questioning?

jb



To: Bill who wrote (105681)6/9/2005 1:46:12 AM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
I think the America YOU see is a figment of your imagination, stoked by vermin like Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin and Michael Savage and the other extreme right-wing toxins who gullible people seem to just lap up, even though their world views are reprehensible and scary.

Regarding torture in Iraq, the U.S. government is not going to admit that its policies have changed. But here are a couple of good articles about America, its torture policies, and Iraq. Here's the first one:

Iraq's parliament: Another farce

By Ghali Hassan
Online Journal Contributing Writer

March 26, 2005—Despite calls to demonstrate independence, the so-called Iraq's 'national assembly' met inside the fortress of the "Green zone." Western media hailed the first meeting as another "historic" moment in Iraq's road to 'democracy.'

In Iraq, the story is of widespread dismay and anger that the elections have not produced any change on the ground or even a new "government." The same expatriate quislings, just more divided on sectarian lines than before the elections, are gathered to discuss their new positions. They met in the shadow of US forces to announce that their symbiotic relation with the Occupation will continue, and that the US forces will stay in Iraq to protect them and terrorise the Iraqi people. It was anything, but a democratic parliament. It was a US theatrical show with Iraqi puppets as actors.

The US is slowly achieving its original aim of dividing Iraqis in order to justify prolonged occupation of Iraq and siphoning its resources. The New York Times reported on March 17 that interviews of Iraqis "indicated in particular a striking sense of disillusionment among [Iraqi] Shiites . . . [and] suggested a hardening of the sectarian divisions that were visible in the election." From the beginning the US played the sectarian card to destroy the unity of the Iraqi people. The Kurds, who have been used by foreign powers time and again, are the tools for this deliberate policy.

With new veto power granted to the Kurds under the US-crafted and unconstitutional Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), the law laid down by former US Proconsul Paul Bremer, Iraq has been divided into one small Iraq in the north and a bigger Iraq to the south. The TAL gave the Kurds, who comprise less than 12 percent of the Iraqi population, 27 percent of the seats in the new 'national assembly.' The US-crafted power allows the Kurds to derail any democratic solution, let alone an end to the occupation in Iraq. So, the Kurds veto in Iraq is the US card. It can be accurately compared with the US veto in the UN. Further, the TAL also forms the blueprint for any new Iraqi constitution. In other words, Iraq self-determination is the hostage of the US. The Iraqi people have no say in the affairs of their country. This is the reason for the ongoing wrangling and haggling over the forming of the new fictitious "government."

The Kurds, led by their opportunistic and self-serving warlords, are aiming at an ethnic cleansing the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and incorporating it into their mythological country of "Kurdistan." The Kurds have never been a majority in Kirkuk. They remain a small minority with a US-armed militia, the Peshmerga. According to the 1957 Iraqi census, the majority of Kirkuk's population was Iraqi Turkoman and Iraqi Arabs (Christians and Muslims). The Kurds' numbers in Kirkuk have declined since 1977, especially during the 12 years (1991-2003) of the genocidal sanctions against Iraq, when many Kurds moved to the North and Northeastern regions of Iraq that were effectively less embargoed than the rest of the country.

It is important to remember that the Kurds, despite their small number in Iraq, have enjoyed better treatment than in Iran and in Turkey, where their numbers are much larger than in Iraq. In Turkey, more than 14 million Kurds live in despair, poverty and military repression, and until recently speaking Kurdish in the public was illegal in Turkey. Compare this with Iraq where schools, hospitals and well-known universities, built by former Iraqi governments, serve all Iraqis in the North. It is easier for Western mainstream media and Western governments to look the other way and ignore realities. Western mainstream media have no problem selling democracy with illegitimate elections than providing the public with honest and independent information.

Furthermore, evidence from Iraqi sources obtained by Scott Ritter, former UNSCOM weapons inspector, suggests that the Bush administration and its Allawi's gang tampered with the elections results and lowered the Shiites votes from '56 percent of the vote to 48 percent,' through a 'secret vote count' and by 'reengineering the post-election political landscape in Iraq dramatically' to fit with the US-designed so-called democracy for Iraq.

The elections were 'the farce of the century.' The US-based Carter Centre, which monitors elections around the world, did not participate in Iraq's elections because they did not meet proper elections' criteria, such as a free and safe environment, and the ability of candidates to move freely. All independent voices in Iraq, regardless of ethnicity, boycotted the elections. As I pointed out earlier, the elections have divided Iraqis and reinforced sectarianism.

The elections were 'demonstration' elections aimed at American and Western citizens at home. In other words, it was a PR exercise to promote a new form of colonialism and illegal armed conquest. The US-crafted elections were designed to legitimise the occupation of Iraq and promote US influence around the globe through ongoing military aggressions. 'Democracy under Occupation' is the new motto of the White House.

It isn't 'democracy,' 'freedom' or human rights that the US is promoting; the US is promoting its own corporate interests. The most brutal and dictatorial regimes in the world, including the Middle East, are the closest allies of the US. A fact the US supports wholeheartedly. The brutal and dictatorial regime in Egypt is the second largest US aid recipient after Israel. The corrupt dictators of the Gulf States, led by Saudi Arabia, have been the closest US allies for over half-century. Further, the US encourages and supports the abuses of human rights in these countries by the outsourcing of torture. The policy, which called is 'extraordinary rendition,' is the practice by which innocent prisoners and detainees in US custody are sent for interrogation in foreign countries that practice torture, such as Egypt Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Arab leaders should be ashamed for associating the Arab World with such an appalling practice that should be the trademark of the US alone.

The US did not invade Iraq for the sake of 'democracy,' 'freedom' or to safeguard human rights, these are the pretexts for domestic consumption and war. It should be remembered that the original pretext for the war was that Iraq possessed a large arsenal of weapons of mass destruction (WMD), which was proved to be a lie. The Bush's Doctrine of 'pre-emptive' illegal wars of aggression is designed to impose US hegemony on defenceless people, using all kinds pretexts to justify its aim. Since the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, the Iraqi people are the most abused and unfree people on the planet today. The destruction of the city of Fallujah and the slaughter of thousands of Iraqi citizens by US napalm and chemical weapons amount to war crimes and are in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

In the US, returned soldiers are telling horrific stories of what it is like for Iraqis to live under occupation. US soldier Camilo Mejia, who refused to return to Iraq after taking leave in October 2003, said recently; "I thought of the suffering of a people whose country was in ruins and who were further humiliated by the raids, patrols and curfews of an occupying army . . . And I realized that none of the reasons we were told about why we were in Iraq turned out to be true . . . I realized that I was part of a war that I believed was immoral and criminal, a war of aggression, [and] a war of imperial domination. I realized that acting upon my principles became incompatible with my role in the military, and I decided that I could not return to Iraq." [1]

After his return from Iraq, ex-Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey sums up the war in a recent interview; "[What we are doing in Iraq] sickened me so that I had actually brought it up to my lieutenant, and I told him, I said, 'You know, sir, we're not going to have to worry about Iraq - you know, we're basically committing genocide over here, mass extermination of thousands of Iraqis.'" [2]

Self-censored media shields the government from any wrongdoing and keeps the public entertained and in place. As Professor William Cook of the University of La Verne in southern California noted, "None of the Iraqi 100,000 dead have a voice to cheer Bush's Doctrine; none of their family members have been asked about its benefits; no one concerned about the ensuing years' invisible companion, depleted uranium, has a voice; none of the maimed—the blind, the limbless, the sick and dying—have a voice; no one has been asked about America's 14 military bases being a permanent part of the Iraqi landscape; no one has been asked about America determining that Iraqi resources should be sold to the most favored private bidder, primarily non-Iraqi; and none of the [innocent, men women and children] prisoners subjugated to [abuse and] torture at Abu Ghraib [and other expanding US prisons in Iraq] has been asked about America's virtues and its democratic ways."[3]

The war was a murderous crime and those who are responsible for it, and for the destruction of Iraqi civil society, should face war crimes trials like the leaders of Nazi Germany.

A farce parliament produced by illegitimate elections in the shadow of a war of aggression and occupation does not make a nation democratic, free and sovereign. It makes a colonial dictatorship. The US-led foreign forces have no business in Iraq. Iraq's liberation and self-determination from foreign invaders are the unquestionable legitimate rights of the Iraqi people.

Resources:

[1]. Camilo Mejia, Regaining My Humanity.

[2]. Amy Goodman interviews Jimmy Massey.

[3].William Cook.

onlinejournal.com



To: Bill who wrote (105681)6/9/2005 1:48:31 AM
From: Grainne  Respond to of 108807
 
Another point of view! It's good to read from a wide variety of sources, don't you think?

Tortures R Us
BY CHRISTOPHER LORD
POLITICS | 11.11.2004

Iraqis wondering what the next phase of the Republicans' invasion of their country will bring should consider El Aguacate airstrip in Honduras. In 2001, 185 bodies were dug up there: the victims were the 'terrorists' and 'enemies of democracy' of the day. Most of the estimated 200,000 dead in America's covert war in Central America in the 1980s disappeared in the jungle. A few were thrown out of helicopters alive (a specialty of US-trained death squads from Argentina, brought to Honduras to assist in the noble struggle against communism). In Honduras itself, where the military dictatorship of General Gustavo Alvarez Martínez became the region's largest recipient of US aid, 10,000 were murdered by death squads. The decomposed witnesses of El Aguacate were particularly unlucky: they were dumped in their mass grave after having passed through the torture chambers of Ronald Reagan's proxy soldiers: the 'democratic resistance', as the Department of Defense liked to think of them at the time. The 'freedom fighters', as Ronald Reagan preferred to say.

The airfield and its facilities were built with American taxpayers' money as part of a massive channeling of funds to the region, and the whole effort was coordinated from the US Embassy in Honduras by the Ambassador himself, John Negroponte, who is said to have masterminded the complex of covert operations in Central America by the US military and the CIA. The channeling of aid to the Contras in Nicaragua was particularly indefensible--they carried out systematic atrocities, with no other aim than establishing a reign of terror over a population that did not support them or anything they stood for. Now that the main players in the Republican war machine are once again those same Reagan-era policy makers, who do we find appointed to the new US Embassy in Iraq--the largest embassy complex in the world? None other than John Negroponte. And torture is back on the menu.

You don't need to be Einstein to join up the dots. Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick II gets eight years for abusing Iraqi prisoners. His lawyers, and credible witnesses produced at his court martial, say that the abusive treatment of prisoners was a regular policy, carried out by military intelligence and CIA interrogators, who also, through the regular military command channels and informally, encouraged the use of a particular style of torture as a normal part of the running of the prison. Nobody really denies this. It's just treated as an irrelevant detail, even though there is now a well-established paper trail documenting these methods. In May 2004 the National Security Archive obtained, through the Freedom of Information Act, copies of interrogation manuals from the US Army and the CIA, and these show that for forty years the Pentagon and the CIA have practiced more or less the same kind of coercive interrogation. Not throwing people out of helicopters: that was left to foreign nationals financed, trained and advised by Americans. The methods used are those seen around the world thanks to the naïve behavior of a few intellectually challenged reserve soldiers who thought that it would be nice to take a few photos to remind them of their happy times bringing democracy to Iraq.

Is there any real attempt to investigate the Abu Ghraib abuses and their place in wider US policy? Are any commanders or CIA or military intelligence officers facing trial? Has the Administration acted on suggestions that the trail leads at least as high as Donald Rumsfeld? Of course not. A Washington Post - ABC poll in May 2004 showed that 35% of Americans believed that 'It's acceptable to torture people suspected of terrorism in some cases'. 51% believed that 'the U.S. government as a matter of policy is (...) using torture as part of the U.S. campaign against terrorism'. The poll did not break respondents down into Republicans and Democrats, but the message is fairly clear. The American public on the whole prefers to look the other way, while a sizeable minority actually supports the use of torture.

The simple idea behind what seems to be standard US practice is that mental torture is more efficient than physical torture. The older interrogation manuals do mention the use of electric shocks, drugs and other more invasive methods, but only simple beatings seem to have survived into the 21st century as official technique. A few Iraqis seem to have been beaten to death during their questioning, but accidents will happen, I suppose. The main approved method is to use fear, humiliation and self-inflicted pain (through stress positions, mainly) to break down the resistance of suspects. In Iraq, the 'suspects' were in many cases not actually suspected of anything except being Iraqis: picked up off the street in random sweeps and pushed around by people who didn't speak their language, and for whom they were presumably no more human than the gooks of Vietnam to their brothers in arms of an earlier generation.

So far, the Republicans' script for Iraq seems to have much in common with Central America twenty years ago, with adjustments for local conditions. With Baghdad constantly under the eye of the international media, suspects earmarked for the most blatantly illegal styles of questioning have been 'disappeared', either to secret locations in Iraq, or to facilities in nearby countries with friendly and accommodating governments. Once the hurdle of rigging the January elections is over (and let's face it, if they can fix the U.S. Presidential election, that should be a walk in the park), the job of providing local death squads to go after opposition groups can safely be given to the forces of the puppet government, again with American training, weapons and support. Even Chip Frederick and Lynndie England might rebel at having to dump mangled corpses in mass graves, and if they were too confused themselves to notice that anything was amiss, the resulting photo souvenirs would be a bit more difficult to explain away. And why does America need such a big embassy in Iraq? For the same reason the Honduras embassy was so big. The aim is clearly to bring democracy lite to the whole region, and in time Iraqi death squads and secret police can be joined by exile groups from neighboring countries, until, as in Latin America, the whole region is effectively under the control of American proxies.

I'm sure this all sounded like a great idea a year ago. But there have been some unforeseen problems. The famous 'international coalition' that is supposed to be supporting the Republican war is crumbling fast, with foreign governments realizing that they get nothing in return for exposing their troops and civilians to improvised explosive devices and random beheadings--not to mention terrorist attacks at home. The payoff for the Republican Party is not international support but corporate profit, and very little of that is going into non-American hands. Also, military control of Iraq is turning out to be a lot harder to achieve than was foreseen, which makes extending regional hegemony a much more difficult proposition. Those countries which have been stupid enough to send their own troops to help in this criminal and lunatic enterprise have been hoping against hope for regime change in Washington: but as Bush demonstrates both his own child-like naivety, and the total cynicism of the grown-ups who are handling him, by starting off all over again with sincere-sounding talk about reaching out across the party divide, non-Americans involved in Iraq are nervously remembering that actually they do have some other stuff they should maybe be doing instead. Can we have our soldiers back now please, Mr President? Last to go will probably be the British, even though public disgust with the war has reached fantastic levels in Britain.

The Republicans have discovered a great secret. America doesn't need the truth. This is what freedom of speech now means: Say what you like. We don't care. The truth can easily be tolerated, because it can simply be ignored. Indeed, our core voters, as we know through a close study of statistics, already are ignoring it. A lot of Americans do care about the truth, but a voting majority is evidently more interested in the Book of Revelations. They are perfectly happy to be lied to. So the Reagan cycle will repeat itself. The lies will get more and more fanciful. (Reagan once described the Contras as 'the moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers'.) The covert program of torture and murder will grow correspondingly more ambitious, as the situation spins further and further out of control. But news fatigue will soon set in among the Republican faithful, as the strain of continuing to believe the White House line becomes too much, and as far as they are concerned, the matter will then be closed. Democracy will have been brought to Iraq. It will be presented as a famous victory, and however unbelievable this claim, the slow thinkers of the heartland won't have the energy or the inclination to question it.

Arabs, though, have got the message. Not just Iraqis, either. Arabs and other Muslims all over the world now have regular access to satellite TV channels that are only too happy to report every case of torture, beating and murder. It is the great American beast of color TV that will turn around and bite its master. For ordinary Arabs everywhere, Bush is already established as the master of torturers and murderers, of imprisoners without trial: as the man who sends airplanes to murder little children and wedding guests and then goes on TV at home to congratulate himself for a job well done and receive the adulation of his people. But when they look at President Bush, few of them care much about this incomprehensible division between Republicans and Democrats. What they see is the leader of the United States of America. And that is enough.

freezerbox.com