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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (119711)	6/13/2005 3:11:08 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793850

Remember that on 9/12 we were fighting a handful of zealots who were desperately attempting to create a clash of cultures. Those zealots were successful in striking us hard, in part because of the ineptitude of security agencies who had the information but not the brains to stop them. On 9/12, however, we weren't facing a huge level of condemnation from most populations of the world, we weren't dealing with wholesale radicalized Muslim populations and we weren't sinking a huge amount of our brainpower, manpower and resources into the morass in Iraq. The rising tide of Islamism did not start on 9/12, nor could it remotely be described as belonging only to a "handful of zealots" at that date. The radicalization of Muslim populations did not start on 9/12. The Muslim's world's hatred of the US as the heir of Western power did not start on 9/12. All these processes have been building for a generation at least, many generations in some cases. All that happened on 9/12 was that you started to pay attention. You have confused your first notice for the time of the creation of these events. This leads to confusion in your conclusions, which all suffer from the post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. World wide ideologies take a long time to brew. George Bush's actions in 2001 - 2005 no more caused Islamism and all the radicalization of the Muslim world that that implies, than did Winston Churchill's actions in 1917 - 1920 cause Communism with all its attendant radicalization. Communism existed before Churchill began to fight it, and it didn't grow stronger just because he fought.

To: cnyndwllr who wrote (119711)	6/13/2005 7:43:34 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 793850

Remember that on 9/12 we were fighting a handful of zealots A handfull??? That handful includes anti US, state and other org sponsored, terrorists in Libya, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Iraq, Cuba, N Korea, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Nigeria, Kenya, Djbouti, Comoros Islands, Madagascar, Algeria, Egypt, South America, Afganistan, Pakistan, etc, etc, etc. That handful also includes Hizbollah, Hamas, , al-Qaida, the Abu Nidal org, the Ramsi Yousef org, The Abu sayyaf Group, Armed Islamic Group (GIA), Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (islamic Group, IG), The Islamic Group, The Japanese Red Army, The Palestine Islamic Jihad, The Palestine Liberation Front, The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, The Revolutionary People/s Liberation Party (Dev Sol), Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path). That is less than 1/2 of the list...You get the idea, I hope. That handful includes animal rights extremists, environmental terrorists, abortion extremists, right wing extremist groups, left wing extremist groups, militia terrorist groups, and Puerto Rican terrorist groups. 9/11 was neither a beginning nor an end. 9/12 was the beginning of our counterattack to defend ourselves from your handful. We have offered something to everybody. We have demonstrated to the world that we can use your preferred technique and walk softly when we get cooperation. Libya and Lebanon are 2 recent examples. We have also shown the world we can still apply "the big stick" when appropriate. War is an art, not a hard science. I believe our leaders are doing a reasonable job in a tumultuous and rapidly changing situation. I have read and listened to so many arguments, I can't count them all. Nobody predicted a foreign state-sponsored insurgency, after the fall of Saddam. We got one. We must deal with it or suffer the consequences of further attacks against our homeland. Sitting back and crying in our teacups hoping the bad guys will all go home and leave us alone is not an option. I believe that the more of us who unite and get behind our leaders, the easier and quicker it will be to find resolution. Our leaders swear an oath to protect and defend The Constitution Of The United States. Isn't it time the rest of us take that oath? uw