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Politics : Social Security on the chopping block -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: wonk who wrote (27)	6/16/2005 5:08:28 AM
From: tonto	Respond to of 35

I am in complete agreement with you...that is of course how competitive markets work. The argument presented was untrue and I simply pointed that out. You took the time to present actual market situations that could exist.

To: wonk who wrote (27)	6/16/2005 2:01:26 PM
From: Sidney Reilly	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 35

That's a good point you make about employers wanting immigration to keep downward pressure on wages. At the same time the employers are contributing to politicians who are paying lip service to tightening immigration but the "problem" persists. Non-citizen workers pay into SS with contributions but will they ever collect? As a side not I have always thought the unions although they are a good thing have been a driving force through strikes in auto and other skilled labor jobs leaving the US. Jobs going offshore is the employers answer to strikes. The unions have shot themselves in the foot.

To: wonk who wrote (27)	6/17/2005 11:36:36 AM
From: Don Earl	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 35

RE: "The argument that the consumer always ultimately pays is just plain false." A rather remarkable statement after explaining how lower costs may be passed on to consumers in lower priced goods and services. RE: "Businesses in an industry on average are valued at 10x earnings." That's just plain hilarious. Try running a screen for companies with a PE of 10. They account for less than 1% of publicly traded companies. Hardly an "average". Hop back on the turnip truck and try not to fall off this time. The formula is Cost plus Profit equals Price. As long as the Profit is a positive number, the consumer pays ALL of the Costs. If Profit is a negative number, the company goes broke. Why on Earth would anyone who doesn't understand that ever get involved in anything that has to do with investing? The real issue with Social Security is not who and how the tax is assessed, but how the money collected is invested by the Government. The money is invested at a drastically negative rate of return, which is why the system will eventually go broke. In essence, it's a pyramid scam, with the government acting as a middle man to siphon off the profits. 100 people pay, so 10 people can retire, and the government spends everything that's left over. If you want to save Social Security, you have to stop the government from spending the money. Even casualties from turnip truck accidents should be able to figure out that much.