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Politics : I Will Continue to Continue, to Pretend.... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Sully- who wrote (11772)6/28/2005 9:25:03 PM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
Chickenhawk Redux - Sacrificing Children

Posted by James Joyner
Outside The Beltway

In a Slate article entitled, "Don't "Son" Me - End this silly talk about sacrificing children," Christopher Hitchens thrashes the latest variant of the chickenhawk meme floating about, the idea that only those who are willing to send their sons to battle have the right to favor a war.

He is particularly peeved by a Richard Cohen piece making that claim.

After parrying the silliness behind the argument, Hitchens gets to the heart of the matter.
    Further on in the same portentous article, we encounter 
one Andrew Bacevich, a "professor of international
relations at Boston University and a retired Army
officer."
What could be more impressive? This expert
delivers himself of the opinion that, "If this is such a
great cause, let us see one of the Bush daughters in
uniform."
Let me do a brief thought experiment here. Do I
know a single anti-war person who would be more persuaded
if one of the Bush girls joined up? Do you? Can you
imagine what would be said about such a cheap emotional
stunt?
Stalin's son was taken prisoner by the Nazi
invaders (and never exchanged), and Mao's son was killed
in the war that established the present state of North
Korea. I am not sure how encouraging such precedents are
supposed to be, but they have nothing at all to do with
the definition of a just war.

Much more important than this, however, is the implied
assault on civilian control of the military. In this
republic, elected civilians give crisp orders to soldiers
and expect these orders to be obeyed. No back chat can
even be imagined, let alone allowed. Do liberals really
want the Joint Chiefs to say: "Mr. President, I'll
respect that order when you have a son or daughter in
uniform
"? It was a great day when President Lincoln fired
Gen. George B. McClellan. It was a great day when
President Truman fired Gen. Douglas MacArthur. No
presidential brat needed to be on the front line for this
point to be understood.

Quite right.

Kevin Drum agrees with another point made by Hitchens:

Did I send my children to rescue the victims of the
collapsing towers of the World Trade Center? No, I
expected the police and fire departments to accept the
risk of gruesome death on my behalf.
Having made the same argument over a year ago, who am I to disagree?

<<<

One could reasonably be in favor of a governmental policy and yet have no desire to join in its enforcement. One could, for example, support government restaurant inspections and yet not be willing to change careers to become a food inspector. No one argues that that's hypocritical. "Ah," you say, "but food inspectors don't risk their lives in the way that soldiers do! Straw man! Straw man!" Fair enough. Can one support putting out fires but not be willing to join the fire department? If so, does that make one a Pyro Chicken? Or, since we all know bears are in charge of preventing fires (at least in the forest) perhaps chicken-bear? Can one advocate the arrest of murderers and not go off and join the police department? I've never heard anyone called names for that combination. Chicken-Shepherd? I dunno.
>>>

Related:

Chicken Hawks Redux: 101st Fighting Keyboarders

Hitchens on Kerry on Veterans

Heroes Don’t Shout

Misplaced Mercy

Former Mates Allege Kerry ‘Unfit’

Chicken Hawks III

Chicken Hawks II

CHICKEN HAWKS

(links to those blog articles can be found here)
outsidethebeltway.com

slate.msn.com

washingtonpost.com

washingtonmonthly.com



To: Sully- who wrote (11772)7/4/2005 8:11:30 PM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
Operation Yellow Donkey

by Armed Liberal
Winds of Change.NET
July 4, 2005

It would be funny if it weren't so predictable; Duncan Black (Atrios) has been waving the "chickenhawk" meme again.

I thought I'd beaten this to death and put a stake in it. It's an immoral position, a politically naive position, and one that undermines our polity. Plus it's just plain rude.

But let's play the hand out a bit. As I noted before, as a fellow liberal, I'll bet he supports higher taxes on the rich (see this Google search).
google.com

When Duncan asks his paymaster, George Soros, or his candidate John Kerry, to voluntarily pay higher taxes - because it's a policy he supports - he can open his mouth try and intimidate a bunch of GOP kids into silence without being such an obvious hypocrite.

I'm sure Soros could easily write a check for $10 - $20 million, and in seriously encouraging him doing that, Duncan could provide leadership that might actually crack open the taxes issue.

I won't be holding my breath.

windsofchange.net

atrios.blogspot.com

windsofchange.net

windsofchange.net