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Politics : Rat's Nest - Chronicles of Collapse -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bill on the Hill who wrote (724)	7/1/2005 8:58:09 PM
From: Bill on the Hill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24226

After reading my previous post I have to edit again. Ethanol contains more energy than it takes to produce it. There, I think that I stated that correctly. I was editing and could not get this url typed in time. journeytoforever.org This 1995 Dept. of Agriculture report gives a positive gain of energy by 24%. ethanol-gec.org This update of that study in 2002 gives a gain of 34% using ethanol. ethanolrfa.org Argonne study suggests a 67% energy gain using ethanol in 2004. agriculture.com No single source of energy will satisfy the demand or equal oil for simplicity of energy acquisition. But all sources combined along with efficient vehicles, structures and general consumption can change our excessive habit for energy. Better to make the shift and change than to suffer the ultimate consequence of inaction. Die off is the ultimate consequence for a society that does not manage its resources and consumes them totally. Witness Easter Island. But, it ain't gonna be easy. And the more we delay. The worse it will be. Of course this is my opinion. Not fact. Ultimately, time will tell. Bill

To: Bill on the Hill who wrote (724)	7/1/2005 9:05:46 PM
From: SiouxPal	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 24226

Thanks I learned something today.

To: Bill on the Hill who wrote (724)	7/2/2005 4:57:28 AM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 24226

Thanks. I may have missed this one; I have sites stashed all over the place, mostly in PMs to amice elf with the addresses. I'm promoting hemp; I've put up several articles on it. 10X better than corn, don't need pesticides or herbicides.One article mentions that you can get 15-20 gal of biodiesel/ acre from the seeds, in addition to the ethanol. Trouble with hemp is that when ever I suggest it in town meetings, everybody starts yelling that it will seed their weed. LMAO. Triffin likes palm oil.. Message 21407784 The best seems to be algae. "But, it ain't gonna be easy. And the more we delay. The worse it will be." Absolutely agree.

To: Bill on the Hill who wrote (724)	7/4/2005 1:52:40 PM
From: Wharf Rat	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 24226

Friend of mine turned me on to this Sat; he talked about harvesting the tops several times a year,and leave the tubers.Compared it with alfalfa, which I want to check out. I'm surprised these guys are taking the tubers, too. Brrr :>) ------------------------------------------------------- Jerusalem artichokes (sunchokes) have been widely promoted as an energy crop and had the second highest alcohol production potential in this series of experiments. However, the species seems to have several disadvantages which may well outweigh its high-yielding potential. The crop was relatively easy to grow but difficult to harvest and store. The tubers are tightly attached to the crown of the plant and, when dug by machine, come up as a mass of tubers, crown tissue, and soil which does not separate well like potato or sweet potato. Thus, much hand labor was needed for harvest. In addition to that, the tubers do not store well after digging and must be utilized quickly to prevent spoilage and loss. However, the tubers do keep well in the soil and presumably could be stored in the field and dug as needed whenever the soil was not too wet. Another problem is that they may become weedy. hort.purdue.edu