And some comments from Stefan's blog...Read Richard Pope's in particular:
Some comments regarding Stefan Sharkansky's Smameless LYING Weasels:
cs
Comment on Entry: Shameless lying weasels, authored by Stefan Sharkansky
And these union guys sent a note to their members claiming the sig collectors were PAID. Another big fat lie. I'm always amazed at how disrespectful these union bosses are to their members. They lie to them and tell them half-truths. The members HAVE to know that. Why do they put up with it?
Posted by Michele at July 1, 2005 09:22 PM
Stefan,
You have UNDERSTATED the case considerably. The webpage in question from "Keep Washington Rolling"
keepwashingtonrolling.com
is NOT merely a list of opponents of I-912. Instead, it is a list of organizations, unions and businesses that are allegedly MEMBERS of "Keep Washington Rolling".
It is one thing to publicly endorse or oppose a ballot proposition (or political candidate for that matter). It is quite another thing, and a much more serious commitment, to publicly join a committee that is campaigning for or against a ballot measure.
Not only that, while public agencies such as the Port of Seattle, Port of Everett, or Port of Tacoma would have the right to take an up-or-down vote by the governing boards on whether to endorse or oppose I-912 (at an open public meeting, with advance agenda notice, public comment at the meeting, etc.), that is ALL that a public agency can do.
It would be illegal for a public agency to become a member of a political committee such as "Keep Washington Rolling" or do anything in support of or in opposition to a ballot measure, other than taking the public vote mentioned above. RCW 42.17.130
Posted by Richard Pope at July 1, 2005 09:27 PM
Here is a list of 25 organizations and 21 businesses which were falsely listed by "Keep Washington Rolling" as being members of their committee.
I copied the list of (alleged) "shameless weasels" on June 30, 2005, so there are a few more falsely listed organizations and businesses, than contained in the June 25, 2005 listing that Stefan retrieved from Google.
ORGANIZATIONS (falsely listed)
• Puget Sound Regional Council
• Association of Washington Cities
• Bellevue Downtown Association
• Building Owners & Managers Association Seattle King County
• Cascadia Center of the Discovery Institute
• Downtown Seattle Association
• Everett Area Chamber of Commerce
• Issaquah Chamber of Commerce
• Kirkland Chamber of Commerce
• League of Women Voters of WA
• Master Builders Association of King and Snohomish Counties
• National Association of Industrial and Office Properties
• People for Modern Transit
• Port of Everett
• Port of Seattle
• Port of Tacoma
• Redmond Chamber of Commerce
• Renton Chamber of Commerce
• Seattle-King County Association of Realtors
• Snohomish County Committee for Improved Transportation
• S. Snohomish Chamber of Commerce
• Washington State Association of Counties
• Women’s Transportation Seminar
• Washington Environmental Council
• Washington Conservation Voters
BUSINESSES (falsely listed)
• Bank of America
• Bannecker & Associates
• Ben Bridge
• CH2MHill
• David Evans and Associates
• Egis Real Estate Services
• EnviroIssues
• Equity Office
• HNTB
• INCA Engineers
• KBA Construction Management
• Kelley Public Affairs
• KPFF
• Merrill Lynch
• Port Blakely Companies
• Rowley Properties, Inc.
• Seattle-Northwest Securities
• Symetra Financial
• Unico Properties
• Wilbur Smith Associates
• WTS Western Systems, Inc.
Posted by Richard Pope at July 1, 2005 09:50 PM
Chris Wickham, the judge in the case, is a major part of how I became politically active and a fathers rights activist. For several years he has sat as commisioner and invented law in family court.
When a portion of my divorce went in front of him, he did not even let my attorney argue the case- not one word- he just awarded a shed load of cash to my ex. For other guys he has refused to enforce his own court orders- and well and a very long list of things on parenting plans that would make your blood boil. Needless to say he has done a lot of damage to families in Thurston County.
His life's aspiration has been to become judge and in this last election he made a 2nd run at it and with a lot of backing from feminists -suceeded.
The guy is an A-1 slime bucket. Insiders know more about how deep this rabbit hole goes. This joker has no place on the bench. Now the rest of the state is going to pay like men in Thurston county have to pay while this sewer chunk served as commisioner.
I'll say it yet again- ANY conservative who wants to run against that pile of sewage will have ridiculously ample resources from fathers rights advocates.
Posted by Andy at July 1, 2005 09:51 PM
If John Carlson and Kirby Wilbur have to report the value of their airtime in support of I-912 as an in-kind contribution, I would like to know what value of 'in kind' contributions have been reported by THESE GUYS (no time to research online PDC records right now):
• International Federation of Professional and Technical Engineers No. 17
• Washington Teamsters Legislative League
• Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA)
• International Union of Operating Engineers Local 302
• Washington State Building and Construction Trades Council, AFL-CIO
• Washington State Labor Council, AFL-CIO
Methow Ken
Posted by Methow Ken at July 1, 2005 09:55 PM
also- anyone in the know here in TC would have known to affidavit this guy- I'm not up on the details of how the case rolled out, but letting this parasite hear the case was a bad move.
Posted by Andy at July 1, 2005 09:55 PM
In addition to donating more money, if you live in Pierce County, the No New Gas Tax folks are making a big push at the Tall Ships Festival and you can help. They need as many volunteers as they can get through the 5th of July.
Posted by Nathan Azinger at July 1, 2005 10:03 PM
Hey Michele--
Ever notice those HUGE school pro-funding signs posted on school property that BARELY skate within the legal lines of info or politicking near the time of a voter funding approval?
I always wondered about these. They go up nice and spanking clean. Meanwhile, garbage and debris are not picked up for months on school grounds. And it takes nearly a year to get a broken window & frame fixed after an accident.
...And we are supposed to bring in nearly $60 of "supplies" for school every year? Where does it go? How much are the illegal aliens' kids asked to bring in as they sit next to your child? Perhaps they are only asked to bring in 1 T.B. vaccination to cover the infections they will spread during the year to YOUR (vaccine compliant) child.
Posted by Jimmie-howya-doin at July 1, 2005 10:38 PM
anyone see a trend here?
recallreedblog.blogspot.com
Posted by Andy at July 1, 2005 10:45 PM
While I have always preached that name-calling is wrong, I guess it is not name-calling if it is the truth! I'm so glad to see all of you guys expose these wretched judges and political activists for what they are. As the grass-roots right becomes more organized, these doers of evil become more desperate. There is no end to what they will do, without regard for the truth. After all, the Wenatchee judge empowered and emboldened them. Keep it up guys . . . stay after them. I also like the remarks about the anti-male judge. My son is a victim of a ridiculous divorce settlement. It has crippled him financially and will for many years to come. He has "shared custody" of his little boy, but he has most of the responsibility. He will be paying a royalty to the mother for many more years . . . just because she birthed this child. Call these judges for what they are!
I'm off to Forks . . . with petitions in hand. I'll bet I can find all kinds of people who haven't heard of the initiative!
Posted by lksimstrailgrammy at July 1, 2005 11:01 PM
I hope that John Carlson, et al. appeal this decision. This is a critical free speech issue. Neither has a financial stake in the outcome, or is a member of the organization.
How could Dave Ross get away with campaigning on KIRO, but these guys get told to stifle their speech? Seems like an easy freedom of speech win to me, but one never knows.
Posted by janet S at July 1, 2005 11:24 PM
Jimmie: I don't even think they require the T.B. shot!
janet S: I was thinking the same thing. I'm no legal expert, but this one seems like a slam-dunk for appeal.
Posted by Michele at July 1, 2005 11:42 PM
I also find it hilarious that Sierra Club is listed as a member organization of Keep Washington Rolling.
Posted by Michele at July 1, 2005 11:45 PM
how much was Dave Ross' radio-show worth in in-kind contributions? ("a trusted voice...") What an idiot.. I'm glad he wasn't elected.. never done anything in his life except 'yap' about stuff. But, his own show was obviously a contribution.. not sure a court ever made him report it (or am I wrong?).
Posted by YourGovernorCostsMillion$ at July 2, 2005 12:10 AM
Is there any prosecutor out there that would like to take Keepwashigntonrolling to court for not filing their reports? The PDC website shows 91 separate C3 filings for NoNewGasTax.com. It also shows none for KWR. Is it possible to file a citizen suit for this?
Posted by ccw1220 at July 2, 2005 01:12 AM
Wow! That is amazing!
What a bunch of lying ... well ... weasels!
And, what the hell is the Women's Transportation Seminar? Does that "organization" even exist?
Are we sure they are not just making up organizations now?
Posted by BananaLand(aka Iguana) at July 2, 2005 01:46 AM
Makes you wonder if the Judge has ever read these words:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
The founders were very specific in the supporting texts, religious and political speech were not to be limited in any fashion or form by the government.
This type of ruling labels the judge as incompetent or just maybe he can't read.
Posted by JCM at July 2, 2005 07:18 AM
Well I guess JOhn and Kirby will have to go up with monetary value for both sides seeing as they both have had pro-gas tax peole on their shows.
Andy, I hear you about this judge and what he did to you. I had the same thing done (by a different judge) while I was in Iraq. My current wife will be on the Glen Sacks radio show on sunday around 430pm or 5pm.
Posted by TrueSoldier at July 2, 2005 07:31 AM
From : soundpolitics.com
Actually, Ivan has (inadvertently) asked a good question....Are they "shameless weasels?"
Are they if they support the "Keep Washington Rolling" barf-athon? What if "Keep Washington Rolling" just says that they are.
I've called around to several of the names on the list trying to get confirmation of that so-called support and the results so far are interesting:
Microsoft - We can neither confirm or deny.
BOA - I have no information that we are on any such list.
Boeing - wouldn't say - referred me to a PR office in Chicago.
PSE - We are not associated with that group.
Just because KWR says that "it is" doesn't mean that "it is". Try it yourself - KWR claims a long list of supporters. I bet we could winnow it down considerably!
Posted by: alphabet soup on June 30, 2005 02:25 PM
I do not know if anyone else tried contacting the "members" listed on KWR's rogues gallery, but I'm here to tell ya that they are lying about their so-called membership!
At best, corporations are going to have a "finger~in~the~breeze" approach to something as controversial as this. This is the reason that you aren't going to find anyone willing to commit to any allegiance to one side or the other.
Posted by alphabet soup at July 2, 2005 08:11 AM
Any Recent headline
KVI Comment: More Reason To Sign nonewgastax.com!
Carlson and Wilbur are dopes. Fisher is defending them because more initiatives equals more political advertising to boost the company's sinking ratings and finances. In the meantime, they are all made to look like fools and are dragging down any real campaign to repeal the gas tax. Whatever happened to: just obey the law?
Can we get a real campaign to repeal the gas tax - not a slimeball act by the Carlson-Wilbur KVI circus? They're doing so well in the station's biggest county that 58% of King County residents now favor the gas tax increase! That's what GOP pollster Bob Moore found out polling for David Irons a week ago.
If you are like me and beside yourself with the antics of the credibility challenged Monorail crowd - just know that Monorail gameplaying is peanuts compared to the Carlson/Wilbur/Fisher/Bader charade.
Can we have some adults take over the effort to repeal the gas tax in a week when Carlson/Wilbur/Bader/Fisher finally admit that this was all a big self serving stunt and that there was never any trend that will put this on the ballot.
Posted by todd at July 2, 2005 08:43 AM
Any Recent headline
KVI Comment: More Reason To Sign nonewgastax.com!
Carlson and Wilbur are dopes. Fisher is defending them because more initiatives equals more political advertising to boost the company's sinking ratings and finances. In the meantime, they are all made to look like fools and are dragging down any real campaign to repeal the gas tax. Whatever happened to: just obey the law?
Can we get a real campaign to repeal the gas tax - not a slimeball act by the Carlson-Wilbur KVI circus? They're doing so well in the station's biggest county that 58% of King County residents now favor the gas tax increase! That's what GOP pollster Bob Moore found out polling for David Irons a week ago.
If you are like me and beside yourself with the antics of the credibility challenged Monorail crowd - just know that Monorail gameplaying is peanuts compared to the Carlson/Wilbur/Fisher/Bader charade.
Can we have some adults take over the effort to repeal the gas tax in a week when Carlson/Wilbur/Bader/Fisher finally admit that this was all a big self serving stunt and that there was never any trend that will put this on the ballot.
Posted by todd at July 2, 2005 08:43 AM
I have no problem with Wilbur & Carlson's participation in the petition drive - ethically or morally.
I don't trust the judges opinion, but it possible that what they did will result in sanctions....so what?
For what it's worth, they have advanced the cause.
However, the other half of the ruling may mean that it is a moot point.
That the court has allowed the state to sell bonds may be the death knell for this initiative. This opens a Pandora's box that no one wants to get into. Once sold, they become contracts that would be the grounds for costly lawsuits should we succeed with the initiative, the resulting ballot measure, and the ultimate vote.
The judge knew this, and chose to rule the way he did anyway.
Posted by alphabet soup at July 2, 2005 09:10 AM
Carlson and Wilbur are no more dopes than the sanctimonious poseurs on NPR, or CBS radio. And I prefer to listen to C & W, because unlike NPR, they encourage people with opposing viewpoints to appear on their programs and defend their positions.
And C & W are dead right, that the lawsuit alledging some 'value' of campaign contributions be charged to the no gas tax campaign is a travesty of the 1st Amendment. By the same principle, the New York Times is due a monstrous assessment for its continuous support for the lefties and denigration of the plans and exploits of everyone else.
Posted by Insufficiently Sensitive at July 2, 2005 09:12 AM
Can anyone confirm that the Mariners & Washington Assoc. of REALTORS are legit supporters of "Keep Washington Rolling" or is it just more lies from the pro-excessive tax crowd?
I am in Real Estate & this gas tax is extemely unpopular. I doubt the WA assoc. of REALTORS supports this nonsense & if they do, they are seeing less money from me.
Posted by AP at July 2, 2005 09:42 AM
In 2008 we will be able to get rid of both Gregoire and this judge. Oh what a great year that will be.
Also keep in mind this judge plays hard to move his political career forward and always has. So his decisions have little to do with the law and more about playing to his causes. This has also always been true with him. Although hopefully this move will mark the end of his ambitions- you can be certain his aspirations are for some higher position in government.
BTW
If you haven't listened to Dino's Inside Olympia interview yet- you will want to. My respect for him has never been higher.
Posted by Andy at July 2, 2005 09:46 AM
An aside- the amount of money this judge cost me was small in retrospect. It didn't destroy my life, however it was a clear abuse of the system and caused me to do some research...and that was where I found MANY destroyed lives.
It was like standing at the edge of a mass grave and realizing it could easily have been me in there if it weren't for dumb luck.
Posted by Andy at July 2, 2005 09:53 AM
on the bond issue-
Just because you write a bond, doesn't mean you have spent the money- the bond should simply get paid back early because they are not going to get much of the money spent by November when the tax gets repealed.
Although if you want to think 3 moves ahead- the DOT/legislature/Gregoirse will try to sink as much of the money as they can immediately to screw the voters.
Posted by Andy at July 2, 2005 10:10 AM
I sent out a hundred or so emails encouraging people to donate. Do I have to file with the PDC?
I really want to do what is right here.
This judge is just another lunitic judge from Thurston County. There are several, but he takes the cake.
Posted by ipsi-dixit at July 2, 2005 10:11 AM
Here is where they got their "rogue's gallery" of supporters from. Check out this link:
wsdot.wa.gov
They basically copied the existing membership of an organization known as the "Transportation Partnership" and attempted to claim that these same groups were now members of "Keep Washington Rolling".
Will post more as I find out more.
Posted by Richard Pope at July 2, 2005 10:19 AM
I hope people will forgive me if this post is a little off topic, but this is in response to a post by regular SP poster Andy, about how Judge Wickham screwed him in his divorce case, which made him into a father's rights activist.
Let's put partisanship aside here, because I went through the same thing, not with Judge Wickham. Father's rights are not a left and right thing. They are a matter of fairness and equity, and equal protection of the law.
Thankfully I had a good attorney and came out OK, but I took a hit nevertheless, because my ex was allowed to lie her ass off, and the system did not allow for any burden of proof on her.
Andy and others might be interested to know that the most eloquent, out-front advocate for father's rights in the State Legislature is none other than Senator Jim Kastama. If anyone were to send Jim an e-mail on this topic, I think you could verify that pretty easily.
Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
Posted by Ivan at July 2, 2005 10:28 AM
They are lying weasels. Neither the Mariner's web site, nor Society of Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace's website even mentions I-912. As a member of SPEEA, I've sent an e-mail to the shamelessly lying weasels demanding either proof of their claim or removal of SPEEA as a sponsoring organization. I've also cc'ed the SPEEA leadership.
Posted by Mike at July 2, 2005 10:31 AM
Thanks Richard. I have sent emails to the leadership of the WA Assoc. of REALTORS so hopefully they will clear our name shortly after the 4th of July weekend.
Posted by AP at July 2, 2005 10:37 AM
Thurston County Superior Court Judge Christopher Wickham,
Willing tool of fascism*.
1. "Wickham said he wouldn't second-guess the Legislature's decision to pass a bill that allows the state to sell highway bonds, backed by the new taxes. A $70 million sale is expected this summer, apparently with potential buyers informed about the initiative."n
Wickham was not asked to second-guess anything. He was asked to intercede in behalf of the people of the State of Washington against the Government in order to preserve the efficacy of a citizen’s initiative. The key question anyone needs ask about this is simply, who is the REAL PARTY OF INTEREST here? The Government or its citizens? There is no more important issue here.
2. "Thurston County Superior Court directed the critics to fully disclose their donors' identities immediately or forego their contributions, and ordered that KVI Radio report the [monetary] value of two talk show hosts' comments promoting rollback Initiative 912."n
In kind contributions?
SUMMARY:
1. Judicial action in Washington State has as its primary object the interests of the elite in derogation of those interests of the people.
2. Speech, unless it meets the political aims of the elite, must be regulated.
CONCLUSION: This cynical open-ended legalistic logrolling in favor of the Government, AND DIRECTLY AGAINST ITS CITIZENS is fascism*.
*Fascism is defined in part as a “system of government . . . that is marked by stringent social and economic control.” The American Heritage Dictionary, p.481 (2nd College ed.1982)
Note: Source is Seattle PI, “Gas-tax foes lose two court battles, but say repeal drive is on track,” By David Ammons
Posted by Not Amused by liberal fascism at July 2, 2005 10:53 AM
It doesn't surprise me a bit to hear from people here that those organizations have boo to do with KWR. Lying is the order of the day for the KWR folks. It's all they have.
Posted by Michele at July 2, 2005 10:56 AM
Stefan, I am happy to watch the unravelling of the monorail because, to me, the more serious problem was its engineering, not its financing. Indeed, the monorail agency has a slim chance of producing another financing scheme. But, this does nothing for unacceptably poor engineering.
Few people admit the anti-monorail argument in these terms. Interbay Route - stupid. Seattle Center Grounds - thoughtless. 2nd Ave downtown -duplicative and duplicitious.
Seattle's transportation engineering faults are endemic - roads as well as transit are not engineered to the highest standards, no matter the taxing scheme.
Who has any idea how the city proposes to fix the Mercer Mess? How traffic will be managed while rebuilding the Viaduct or widening the floating bridges? Will increased road capacity quickly fill and obviate the investment?
Unbelievably, 1st Priority is always setting up a pool of money. The next priority is a specious public process that takes forever, costs millions and then dimisses public concern.
The problem is not gax taxes, but how that tax money is spent. Fight this gas tax, not because its a new tax burden unfairly distributed, but because at least some of the managers and engineers are incompetent and corrupt.
Posted by Artie at July 2, 2005 11:02 AM
Do I have this right?
The parties that _have_ to report are the ones that are actually for/against the ballot measure. IOW 'Keep Washington Rolling' and 'No New Gas Tax' but KWR doesn't have to report yet because they didn't formally organize until later?
It isn't _Fisher_ that has to report, it is NNGT that has to report what Fisher's offered? And if it was a campaign with contribution limits, NNGT would have to reimburse Fisher for the in-kind contribution?
Because if all of that is true, then this is what you do:
EVERY caller should say "Hillary for Presidential Nominee" (or President, but I think I'd choke). We can rack up a pile of air time that the _HILLARY_ campaign has to reimburse _FISHER_ for. According to this judge.
Pretty sure they'd love to refuse this in-kind contribution - but the way you end up doing that often ends up as a monetary reimbursement.
Posted by Al at July 2, 2005 12:15 PM
Someone should really talk to the Seattle Mariners and see if they are really opposing Initiative 912.
Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for them to take a position on a controversial issue. They are very vulnerable to public opinion, unlike most of the other businesses listed.
People aren't going to change their bank or insurance company because of their position on a gas tax increase. Ordinary folks don't buy Boeing's planes, and Microsoft is basically a monopoly. And some of the businesses don't even deal with the general public.
But the Mariners depend on ordinary people buying tickets to their baseball games (and paying for stadium related concessions, like food, beer, and parking) for the vast majority of their revenue.
What better way to show displeasure with the gasoline tax increase, than to simply boycott the Mariners games and not buy their tickets? Especially when the team is in the cellar currently.
Posted by Richard Pope at July 2, 2005 01:32 PM
Shameless, Lying & being a Weasel seems to be the "in" thing now in this state. After all, fraud is now legal.
Posted by Susu at July 2, 2005 01:44 PM |
